Devon TRF Group Forum

Wheely · Expert

Trail Magazine - Should it stay or should it go.............?

russell11031967 · Devon's Best

+1 smile

Paul Farrow · Expert

+2

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

+1.

A PDF can still reach the majority of members. 38% is far too much.

russell11031967 · Devon's Best

Been thinking about this one, perhaps I should just pay my membership minus 38% wink

V Twin Funster · Expert

I enjoy a good read whilst otherwise engaged on the throne wink , but I would rather see a pdf version and the money put towards the fighting fund. Me thinks it may well be needed with the activities in the Peak District National Park and possible future impications, etc...

I can always print it on recycled paper for reading at my leisure wink .

Tigerman · Expert

Pm Debbie and ask for it in PDF , just done mine. Every little helps..

Harty · Devon's Best

I do think monthly is excessive and stretching it a bit, but I think quarterly would make it more readable perhaps, rather than get rid of it.

L'orange · Devon's Best

Tis a fair point wheely, on top a this the problem with PDF is virtually no one opted to take it!!allthough if the only option was PDF maybe more would go for it.

Tigerman · Expert

Email Debbie (DHH) and ask for it in PDF. Just done mine. every penny helps!!

RichT4 · Champion

A good topic wheely and one that I've pondered from time to time, it has always struck me as a waste of funds, a relic from the pre-internet days.

A magazine could still be published (in full colour) but only to pdf - that could reach most members by email.
It could also be accessed via the main TRF website for download to anyone that is interested, and then also linked by people to other bike interest forums.
This would massively increase the reach (maybe help to attract new members) and could still earn revenue through advertising without all the overheads of printing and posting.

Cancelling the mag gets my vote if it were ever to be seriously considered.

Schoe000 · Expert

Sorry not worth 38% IMHO. To answer the question "it should go"

delvey91 · Devon's Best

Im a PDFer for the new year :)

Tigerman · Expert

Harty wrote:
I do think monthly is excessive and stretching it a bit, but I think quarterly would make it more readable perhaps, rather than get rid of it.

Mark they are not planning to get rid of it as far as I'm aware. Just encouraging people to go electronic.. smile

TTR · Powermonger!!

If a pdf is good then we should save the money and go for it!

The Rider's Digest is an excellent example of a magazine where the pdf reader works really well. Also, it is free of charge to readers and paid for by the adverts.

Pete · Devon's Best

Everyone has the option to opt out on renewal by ticking the box on the form.

Might be time to make people opt in rather than out.
IE make people tick the box in order to receive trail, rather than to opt out.

Schoe000 · Expert

L'orange wrote:
Tis a fair point wheely, on top a this the problem with PDF is virtually no one opted to take it!!allthough if the only option was PDF maybe more would go for it.

I am guilty of this, I prefer to read on paper than on screen, strangely I find paper easier to read. BUT I was not aware of the massive costs and will change to PDF.

salcomberider · Clubman B

I must say i do look forward to recieveing my copy, but £49,000 would go along way in the fight to keep our lanes open.

TTR · Powermonger!!

How can you retrospectively opt for the pdf version Steve?

doug9270 · Powermonger!!

Pete wrote:
Everyone has the option to opt out on renewal by ticking the box on the form.

Might be time to make people opt in rather than out.
IE make people tick the box in order to receive trail, rather than to opt out.

im am with pete on this one.

Bob Adams · Clubman A

I've just opted for PDF. No way is it worth £49K. I would go for PDF only at that rate.

That amount of money would pay a lot of legal bills...make that a few!

fred · Sportsman

doug9270 wrote:
Pete wrote:
Everyone has the option to opt out on renewal by ticking the box on the form.

Might be time to make people opt in rather than out.
IE make people tick the box in order to receive trail, rather than to opt out.
im am with pete on this one.

+ 1

What about the life members who dont fill out the forms !!!! ( if their are any !)

PDF - if definitely my preferred format - why are we wasting so much funds !

Simmo · Expert

I rarely read it. PDF or nothing would be my desired format.

fred · Sportsman

So how many above have asked for TRail Magazine by PDF ?

You need to email memsec@trf.org.uk to ask for PDf so they can update the records

Great Thread wheely

Simmo · Expert

fred wrote:
So how many above have asked for TRail Magazine by PDF ?

You need to email memsec@trf.org.uk to ask for PDf so they can update the records

Great Thread wheely

done

gaschef · Devon's Best

Before Trail magazine is committed to the digital age, look at some other organisations who have gone down the same route. Several years ago the British Sub Aqua Club membership decided that they no longer wanted the monthly magazine and took a large reduction in membership fees instead

The magazine was still available but from book stores or by subscription, THe price went up so fewer copies were sold, What the BSAC membership failed to take into account was the revenue the advertisers in the magazine paid, and as the magazine was now being read by fewer people, less companies were willing to advertise and the magazine dwindled in size, as did the funds going to the club

Companies pay for advertising as a magazine lasts for many months or years and a product is always under the nose of a prospective buyer. PDF or other electronic formats are not liked by advertisers as they are not permanant or seen by anyone other than the person it was sent to. THe result is that fewer advertisers will buy space and it may be the case that it will actually cost the club more to produce in PDF than in print due to the loss of revenue

The other down side is that Trail magazine itself as a printed publication is a great advertising tool for the TRF, something someone can actually hold and look at without switching on the computer is a great assett, getting rid of it means this advertising is no longer available

38% of revenue is about the average figure for most small organisations, so its not out of the ball park without its advertisers you could be looking closer to 50%, in PDF format it will still cost a considerable amount to produce, but without the printing costs but also with much reduced advertising revenue to the TRF

Its a double edged sword, in the case of the BSAC once the magazine was stopped membership fell, and there are probably many other organisations who have the same story to tell. Someone really needs to looks at all of the implications before a decision is made, but look back at other organisations and see what impact loss of there magazine made

doug9270 · Powermonger!!

I joined the TRF by word of mouth not by seeing a TRF mag, in fact i had never seen one until i became a member. I would rather see our money spent on advertising in main stream bike mags. Seeing a TRF mag in the dentist waiting room will not encourage many new members.

_tc · Clubman B

+1 for me. Love the magazine but happy for the cause to save money and put it towards keeping lanes open.

gaschef · Devon's Best

doug9270 wrote:
I joined the TRF by word of mouth not by seeing a TRF mag, in fact i had never seen one until i became a member. I would rather see our money spent on advertising in main stream bike mags. Seeing a TRF mag in the dentist waiting room will not encourage many new members.

THat may be the way to go, however what I know of advertising in the mainstream magazines the price of decent sized advert is horrendus. It may be that PDF is the way to go but set up something with a bike mag to publish some of the Trail articles, they may be looking for further articles to include in each issue, and if the TRF were lucky they could even get paid for them or set the money off against advertising

Not a decision that can be taken without a lot of discussion, from my personal point of view PDF but thats only because im away from home a lot of the time, from a purely commercial point of view its a decision with a lot of implications and there may be contractural agreements with printers, advertisers etc that have to be sorted out

philsil · Clubman B

I spoke to Mr Ellison when the national meeting was in Devon last year about sending the PDF'd mag to lapsed members. His reply was grumpy.
Is he related to the printers?
Also advertising revenue could increase by having more space available for adverts through cheaper rates.
I find the online mag is more useful as it's always handy to refer back to without diving through the bin or bookshelf.

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

fred wrote:
You need to email memsec@trf.org.uk to ask for PDf so they can update the records
Done.

devondan · Champion

I hate to be boroing but I'm with Tim, the TRF would have to look at the business case carefully before ditching the paper format. But I'd certainly have no prob in it being bi monthly, nor receiving it personally in PDF.

Big T · Expert

nickpdo wrote:
fred wrote:
You need to email memsec@trf.org.uk to ask for PDf so they can update the records
Done.

Done

John Leah · Clubman A

It's not that straightforward and someone in full possession of the figures needs to look at the economies of scale. You will find that, even if half the membership opted for the zero-cost PDF version, it wouldn't reduce the production cost by 50% because the costs of artwork, typesetting, etc. are the same whether producing 1 or 50,000 copies. All that's being saved is the raw material and distribution cost. True, postage is now very expensive - although we do have a distribution contract which should serve to minimise that cost - but the raw material is relatively small beer.

Far be it for me to make recommendations to our illustrious national committee but, as the cost has raised its head, I would expect alternative quotes to be sought as real savings could be found here - and I speak from experience...

I produce the annual handbook for a Devon sporting association but when my regular printer went bust I was forced to look elsewhere and obtained three quotes. ALL were considerably less than the price I had been paying and, the one I selected, was less than half the price. Had I been in a competitive tendering position myself I would have shopped around but, as I wasn't and could just pass the cost on, I had become complacent. Maybe the TRF needs to be challenging their supplier and courting alternatives - unless, as I'm confident they are, they have that in hand already.

Another consideration is how many members embrace the technology and will be able to access a PDF file online or in their e-mail; I understand it's a minority of DTRF members participate on the forum (but that may be more of a reflection on the forum) however, looking at the latest membership list I see that 93% of Devon members have e-mail accounts so distributing a PDF that way is viable even if we need to print off a few and post to the remaining 7% (who may be invited to make a contribution to the postage).

Personally, I like having a physical magazine but would be the first to request a PDF if it saves us money. But at the moment that's uncertain and, for it to, may need to be an 'all or nothing' decision.

Cheers,

John