Devon TRF Group Forum

Wheely · Expert

Run Reports Suggestion #2

Pete · Devon's Best

Well said sir.
I haven't contributed a run report for some time for exactly the reasons Wheely so clearly states above.

Can't see any point in hiding what we do when it acts as such a good shop window for us.

Because of a lack of response to Run Reports due to limited circulation I no longer bother to start another thread for a ride and instead tack videos etc onto the end of the Rides Out one where at least I can be sure that the people who were on the ride may view it.

RichT4 · Champion

Pete wrote:
Well said sir.
I haven't contributed a run report for some time for exactly the reasons Wheely so clearly states above.

Can't see any point in hiding what we do when it acts as such a good shop window for us.

Because of a lack of response to Run Reports due to limited circulation I no longer bother to start another thread for a ride and instead tack videos etc onto the end of the Rides Out one where at least I can be sure that the people who were on the ride may view it.

What I see happening nowadays (or did use to happen anyway) is the 'ride request' becomes the thank you thread and then sort of the 'run report' and so after about a week gets moved to the run reports section.

Everyone who was on that run gets chance to say something, share photos & vids, after that it's members only.

Is that still happening?

RichT4 · Champion

Wheely wrote:
I'm not trying to rock any boats - just stating this is what the system has caused. And it should probably change. Although I appreciate we may not want to give the antis any ammo - we represent a body that ride legal lanes and want to keep them open - surely hiding the evidence of this to the public means we have something more to hide?????

I don't think so. A picture or even a video clip can very easily be taken out of context. People have very different views of what is acceptable use of a lane.

The problem for us mods is that some users have no appreciation of this so post up anything & everything. The next problem is that some users seem to be very easily upset by any actions taken by mods.

Users can put a lot of time & effort into a run report and so could get miff'd if it suddenly got edited or put into an area of the forum they couldn't access. They may also get miff'd if it was suggested that they edit their report.

From my own experience it seems that for the most part run reports are fine but a few stray into the grey area. Then it's not easy to decide whether to act or not. It seems that the run report area was the main one that needed to be moderated and so was the main cause of issues.

Ultimately this is one for the officers to decide on but as a mod I would like to request that clear guidelines are agreed upon for what is and what isn't acceptable. This should be documented in the posting guidelines.

I think run reports are great and should be allowed in the open section of the forum, with the caveat that if a mod thinks a report is close to the mark it will be temporary (or permanently) put in the members only area until it is either fixed or deemed to be fine. If everyone accepts this I think it will work fine, but you just know someone will get all uppity about it sooner or later.... then it'll be another mod bashing session..

Pete · Devon's Best

RichT4 wrote:
Ultimately this is one for the officers to decide on but as a mod I would like to request that clear guidelines are agreed upon for what is and what isn't acceptable. This should be documented in the posting guidelines.

This is already the case surely?

See: http://devongtrf.activeboard.com/f448269/posting-guidelines/

RichT4 · Champion

Pete wrote:
RichT4 wrote:
Ultimately this is one for the officers to decide on but as a mod I would like to request that clear guidelines are agreed upon for what is and what isn't acceptable. This should be documented in the posting guidelines.
This is already the case surely?
See: http://devongtrf.activeboard.com/f448269/posting-guidelines/

Depends how you interpret the guidelines Pete.

The section under privacy states the below, it does not state what would be deemed acceptable or what would not. It leaves it to the individual to decide and that is where the fun begins. As a mod it is difficult to police based on opinion but easy based and laid down rules. If the officers could clearly state what isn't acceptable then everyone knows where they stand.

Remember that this is a public forum, and you have no guarantee or expectation of privacy. Your post could be read by anyone.

Please therefore do not post information that could bring the TRF into disrepute.

Please do not post information that identifies lanes or their physical location (use DTRF lane nos. for this purpose).

Whilst we encourage the posting of photographs, please be mindful of the content of photographs/videos as an innocent looking picture or video clip can be objectionable to those outside of the TRF.

We would highly recommend obscuring number plates where these are visible in photographs.

Posts can be traced. We record information about every user of this forum, and will honour any court orders or requests by recognised law authorities for information about individuals posting libellous material.

All communications on this board are deemed to public and not private communications. We reserve the right to remove without notice any message posted for any reason, but we have no obligation to remove content you find objectionable.

Harty · Devon's Best

I'll put the question to the Officers Wheely. The moderators only abide by the rules deemed by the officers. Give me a few days, as it takes a while to get a response from everyone. Cheers

doug9270 · Powermonger!!

Send PM to Steve Harcus so we can discuss it at the meeting tomorrow.

Steve H · Devon's Best

doug9270 wrote:
Send PM to Steve Harcus so we can discuss it at the meeting tomorrow.

Ask Sean Comber, Group Secretary, (DR Sean) to add it to the agenda.

More than happy to discuss it. I've a feeling we did not so long ago but the old grey cells are playing up so I could be wrong.

Wheely · Expert

Cheers for giving this further consideration.

You are right in that I think you discussed it within the last 5 months or so - and I believe the ossifers decided to keep it private. The net result being virtually no-ones does them now - and most people use the easy 'work-around' option as discussed. Hence the re-raise.

Wheely · Expert

Sorry couldnt attend last night's meeting - Tuesdays always difficult for me as I teach circuit training on this evening.

Anyhoos, what was the verdict??

Steve H · Devon's Best

I had a private chat with Sean Comber (group sec) about it & he had a couple of ideas how it could work so everyones happy.

He's working it out & hopefully, once agreed by the officers, some ride reports will become public.

Pete · Devon's Best

So that is a no then. Was there not even any discussion last night?

A wonderful opportunity for the group to showcase to the world how much fun we are having squandered, again. Our shop window has the blinds pulled down and the myth of TRF secrecy is perpetuated, again.

Many new members have told me how they joined after seeing video and pictures in run reports and wanted to join in the fun. That will put a stop to that then.

Doesn't seem much point in paying TRF subs if the forum can be used to organise rides without paying and since there are virtually no run reports submitted these days anyway not missing out on anything there then.
Short sighted indeed.
Shame.

jt · Powermonger!!

I didn't go on the forum until after I 'paid up' but didn't go on a ride out for some time after joining and it was reading these that encouraged and inspired me to do so.....

I do understand the work it could cause the mods if the reports were made public - but if those posting the reports 'abided' by the code of conduct and were sensible then that would not be an issue and perhaps there lies the key. I do think Pete is right and more would come along if they could see the fun we have and what we do. I don't personally hold with the 'stealth' approach - we ride legal bikes on legal ROW's - whats to hide? if we keep sneaking about then that causes suspicion does it not?

Has the ride out section recently be made members only??? - If so then how will prospective new members (who we tell to keep an eye on the forum) know there are rides going on? - If its always been members only then Wheelys comment 'The main change is people are aware of this so put their videos etc in the Ride Out section after the run has been completed - such that all riders, members or not, can view it (Exactly as it should be providing it shows responsible riding behaviours). ' makes no sence.....

I have never - until just now looked to see what is avalible on the forum to non members - its interesting and perhaps time for a review?

I know many say that this forum is just that and isn't 'the Devon TRF' as such - but truth is it's our shop window, our communications center, our notice board, and like it or not for many the center of the DTRF. As such perhaps the power of it to do us great good or great harm should not be underestimated and this fact recognised and discussed more at meetings rather than dismissed as 'not meeting buisness'.

Harty · Devon's Best

JT Wrote:

I didn't go on the forum until after I 'paid up' but didn't go on a ride out for some time after joining and it was reading these that encouraged and inspired me to do so.....

I do understand the work it could cause the mods if the reports were made public - but if those posting the reports 'abided' by the code of conduct and were sensible then that would not be an issue and perhaps there lies the key. I do think Pete is right and more would come along if they could see the fun we have and what we do. I don't personally hold with the 'stealth' approach - we ride legal bikes on legal ROW's - whats to hide? if we keep sneaking about then that causes suspicion does it not? It's also been done to encourage all these so called new members to actually renew their membership each year

Has the ride out section recently be made members only??? - If so then how will prospective new members (who we tell to keep an eye on the forum) know there are rides going on? - If its always been members only then Wheelys comment 'The main change is people are aware of this so put their videos etc in the Ride Out section after the run has been completed - such that all riders, members or not, can view it (Exactly as it should be providing it shows responsible riding behaviours). ' makes no sence..... All any new member has to do is register on the forum, then they can see the 'ride out section', it's always been like that

I have never - until just now looked to see what is avalible on the forum to non members - its interesting and perhaps time for a review? There are only 3 sections that non-paying members do not get to see, Run Reports, ROW and Lane Clearing

I know many say that this forum is just that and isn't 'the Devon TRF' as such - but truth is it's our shop window, our communications center, our notice board, and like it or not for many the center of the DTRF. As such perhaps the power of it to do us great good or great harm should not be underestimated and this fact recognised and discussed more at meetings rather than dismissed as 'not meeting buisness'.

-- Edited by Harty on Wednesday 9th of October 2013 05:38:18 PM

wackyracer · Powermonger!!

Anyone fancy being vice chairman (post is vacant)

well I was at the meeting last night and I must say it was one of them enjoyable meets

I had forgot all about the ride reports business or other wise I would have said something

I for one think it could go back into the public section but I bet I'll receive the same slamming as before for moderating ride reports, dammed if I do dammed if I don't

many time served members should know the format for meetings especially if you can't make it is to simply contact the group sec and ask it to be added to the agenda, it's been that way for ages ;)

only 3 officers present and 20 members or should I say trail riders - good to see em all but a poor reflection on something everyone feels so strong about!

RichT4 · Champion

Here's as crazy suggestion....
Dissolve the monthly meeting as being the means that group decisions are made!

The monthly meeting is more of a pre-internet way of doing things anyway, large meetings (in business) are a way of disseminating information and gaining feedback but are rarely used for making decisions.
I've heard the officers have an email group for discussing issues, maybe this could now be used for making decision regarding the group?
The outcomes of which can be notified to the members via email and/or on the forum.
Having to wait for the monthly meeting seems strange to me, and it appears to be paralysing the groups ability to adapt quickly.

I'm not suggesting to abolish the monthly meetings BTW, just uncouple the groups decision making from them.
Not everything needs a show of hands...

Pete · Devon's Best

Can someone please confirm the difference between Members Only and Private Forum?

Is it Members Only is only for those registered on the forum (Runs/Rides Out)
and Private Forum is only for those who are paid up TRF members? (Run Reports)

Harty · Devon's Best

Pete wrote:
Can someone please confirm the difference between Members Only and Private Forum?

Is it Members Only is only for those registered on the forum (Runs/Rides Out)
and Private Forum is only for those who are paid up TRF members? (Run Reports)

That's correct Pete.

Harty · Devon's Best

Pete wrote:
Well said sir.
I haven't contributed a run report for some time for exactly the reasons Wheely so clearly states above.

Can't see any point in hiding what we do when it acts as such a good shop window for us.

Because of a lack of response to Run Reports due to limited circulation I no longer bother to start another thread for a ride and instead tack videos etc onto the end of the Rides Out one where at least I can be sure that the people who were on the ride may view it. Pete, do you know if any of these riding non-members take out TRF membership after your ride outs???

jt · Powermonger!!

'There are only 3 sections that non-paying members do not get to see, Run Reports, ROW and Lane Clearing'

Ah ha - cheers Mark - that make sence, I forgot that a member of the forum has different access than a non registered one and again to a TRF member (3 levels) and so I understand wheelys post

And yes I can see that some may join so they can gain access and read about the rides - but would be able to see the run 'advert' just by registering on the forum.

Finally, I would guess that over the years 60-70% of those non members I have taken out have joined after a few rides......

Steve H · Devon's Best

Pete wrote:
So that is a no then. Not necessarily, as I said, Sean had a couple of ideas that should keep people happy. Was there not even any discussion last night? No, we had a discussion at a meeting a few months ago. Eyes glaze over & people start to talk amongst themselves if the meeting goes on too long. I try to keep them below an hour unless necesary. As Harty said, give the officers a few days to scratch heads & come up with something.

DR Sean · Clubman B

Hi ya, just catching up having found out what all the fuss is about bloody forum, seems to be no end of bother thats democracy for you. Personally I think all legal stuff should be open access our consciences are clean and we have nothing to hide. Antis will always be 'Anti's'.

Reading and seeing well written reports with video/photos is a real stimulus to getting out there (just see mine for example ha ha ha).

From a political point of view, membership numbers/income counts for a lot nowadays so if it encourages membership that can only be a force for good!

Im happy to be included as a moderator as suggested by Steve, checking content on a weekly basis if need be, using my own moral compass. /TRF guidelines

99% of people apply common sense and the 1% can be moderated I guess.

All the best Sean

PS I still have not learnt to wheely properly yet, hence inoffensive photos

ttr steve · Devon's Best

I am a paid up member, how comes I can't see the run reports ROW and the lane clearing confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse confuse

Corky · Clubman B

If you PM admin they should be able to sort that out for you...

ttr steve · Devon's Best

Cheers

Steve H · Devon's Best

As promised there has been consideration between officers about public ride reports.

Most are in favour but some are concerned about what could be posted.

However, it has been agreed there will be 2 ride report sections, one private & one public. Admin will add the open one to the home page so people can then choose where to post.

This way mods can move anything suspect over to the private section if necessary (with a brief explanation why). The original post may be fine but follow up comments are equally to be clean.

This will be live for new ride reports, hopefully from today.

Any report showing what could be considered anti-social behaviour will be moved to the private section. Anything that wouldn't be acceptable on a main road in any town/village etc won't be acceptable on the open ride report section.

Common sense will hopefully prevail, we are being watched & anything that could be held against us almost certainly will be.

If a report is moved it has to be accepted it was done in the best interests of DTRFG. It's not being deleted, just moved to the private section.

Any post that doesn't follow existing guidelines could still be deleted.

Please remember that if the open ride report section is continually abused it will be removed and only the private one will remain.

I hope this is satisfactory to all; its up to you how successful it is.

mud sweat n gears · Clubman B

Sounds like a good idea/ compromise to me