Devon TRF Group Forum

Viking · Account Deleted

Well done that man.

wackyracer · Powermonger!!

Thats the best PR work anyone can do and more to the point its every trail riders responsibility to do their bit wink

Very important to have the correct signage on posts!

Aww he sent her a card with free TRF membership attached no doubt wink

Pete · Devon's Best

A good illustration of the value of research before riding and the rider is a good ambassador for trail riding.

There are a great many vehicular ways wrongly signposted and the landowners cannot be blamed for thinking the signage is correct.

Politeness costs nothing.

I have slight misgivings that he accepted permission without asserting that he did not in fact need it because evidence showed the way to be a vehicular way as this may lead the next rider to be similarly accosted. Nevertheless an amicable ending is preferable and he did assert this in the first instance.

I was struck by the similarity with the farmer I met fairly recently who took exception to my riding though his 'garden' which had seen no vehicular traffic in his lifetime, and none in the sixty years his mother had lived there, who did , eventually, following a site meeting with DCC PROW to whom I referred him, acknowledge the existence of the road alongside his land which was discovered by a Devon TRF member looking for anomalies when comparing road records with the actual route used by vehicles curently. (191-121)

V Twin Funster · Expert

An example to use all biggrin

danwr450f · Clubman B

Wham bam thank you mam

jt · Powermonger!!

On my new years Honours list, he should get a knighthood for services to trail riding - how did he stay so calm?

I need lessons

Good find Joe.....

Kwaka Geoff · Clubman A

What a top bloke. That said, I'm of the opinion the lady knew it a public right of way and was relying on the mis-signage and the lack of knowledge of 'most' who would probably have turned around after her rant but this time she met her match in a very polite, very knowledgable TRF member so she had to yield! I'll say it again, well done that man!

TTR · Powermonger!!

Remarkable change in the "lady" when she realised he wasn't calling her bluff wink

A good "training " video methinks with the caveat about permission as mentioned by Pete.

Harty · Devon's Best

wackyracer wrote:
Thats the best PR work anyone can do and more to the point its every trail riders responsibility to do their bit
Very important to have the correct signage on posts!
Aww he sent her a card with free TRF membership attached no doubt

Or a free MT43 wink

John Leah · Clubman A

An inspiring video showing how being in possession of the facts and prepared to politely, but firmly, assert your rights can overcome the most intransigent individual. It's something we can all learn from. If, however, I can play the Devil's advocate ...

There were sufficient references given to locate the scene of the incident and these maps are centred on 'Dryhill Farm'. The first map clearly shows a bridleway passing through it before veering off to the left with a possible 'white road' running alongside. Assuming they were planning to take the white road what map is he looking at to convince him this was legal? OK, he may have conducted rigorous research and determined it was but, on the information I see here, it wouldn't get on the DTRF Legal overlay.

Dryhill Farm.JPG

This second map shows the bridleway appears to have been rerouted around the farm but there is still no ORPA - just the white road. The only ORPA is the Cold Slad lane they mention (but to enter the farm it seems they could have ridden a short length of footpath).

Dryhill Farm - 2.JPG

There are other differences between these two maps (the first is from Memory map, the second online) but nothing that convinces me they were on a ROW legal for vehicles.

Cheers,

John

Viking · Account Deleted

For real??? Well that has just destroyed my faith in this vid. Bad team.

John Leah · Clubman A

Not necessarily as maps can be wrong and change so he may still have been correct. Of course, it may have been all bluff in which case probably best not to play poker with him smile

It's still a good demonstration of how to state your case.

Cheers,

John

-- Edited by John Leah on Wednesday 29th of January 2014 11:32:41 PM

Pete · Devon's Best

Perhaps the comments below which are appended to the Youtube video will restore Joe's faith in the team because he has clearly had confirmation from the County Council that there is a vehicular right of way there, albeit incorrectly signed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CK0vG48YlWQ

Published on Oct 8, 2013

A civil altercation with a landowner at Little Shurdington near Cheltenham.

This right of way has been signed on the ground as a bridleway for a number of years despite being marked as an ORPA on the various OS maps that I have access to, along with the rights of way map on the Gloucestershire County Council website.

A conversation on 08.10.13 with KP from Gloucestershire County Council's rights of way department confirmed that:

1. The right of way is incorrectly signed as a bridleway.
2. The right of way is a mixture of class 5 & 6 highway.
3. A public footpath runs 'on top' of some of the class 6 highway.

KP explained that class 5 highway is maintained to a basic standard for use by wheeled vehicles, and could be found at either end of the right of way.

Class 6 highway compromises the middle section of the right of way and crosses open farmland on a semi-defined track. KP explained that this was usually maintained to pedestrian standards, unmettled (unpaved) and is usually 'unsuitable for wheeled vehicles'.

This particular stretch of class 6 highway is too narrow for anything other than pedestrian, horse, cycle and motorcycle. It connects Little Shurdington to Cold Slad.

The landowner had blocked our path and we were both ready to turn back when an unexpected change of heart allowed us to proceed.

How do you think I handled the confrontation? Please be respectful to the landowner (you're welcome to speak your mind towards me!).

NGR: SO924168.

Gloucestershire CC RoW map:

https://gloucestershire.firmstep.com/...

John Leah · Clubman A

I'd seen that and the lane it refers to is between Little Shurdington and Cold Slad so hearing in the vid (at 3:33) mention of Dryhill Farm thought they was where they were and heading north so on a different lane. Looking closer at the satellite image I now think they were at Greenfield Farm heading south. Of significance is that the first 500 ft after the farm is, according to my Memory Map, a footpath and a gap in the ORPA! The other map I included an extract of does show it as a continuous ORPA so he is right. If she was only familiar with the old map (and in mentioning a RUPP suggests she wasn't current) may explain the confusion.

Pete · Devon's Best

Once again a reminder that whilst the OS maps are thoroughly researched there is a disclaimer on every map and the current situation should be checked with the relevant authority beforehand.

Research before riding as always and a good advert for the TRF.

Thankyou Joe for posting.

Well done that man.

shack · Clubman A

I think it's a hats off to everyone past and presence who helps keep us all pretty much up to date on where to ride.
Time, patience and expertise, I'd like to start with one and work on the others.

RichT4 · Champion

Interestingly I saw that vid on the TRF forum yesterday. smile

I was under the impression that initially he checks the ROW status via the Gloucestershire Firm step website. That site must have already showed the lane as a current ROW?
I'm assuming that he followed up afterwards... but then in the video he was clearly stating that the lane had been incorrectly signed...

Anyway, I watched another by him and was impressed the way he stands his ground. In this he challenges an angry man to attempt to move him lol.

here

Pete · Devon's Best

Another, more light hearted, confrontation between an angry walker and a vehicular user.

Here