Devon TRF Group Forum

James DRZ · Novice

Good KTM specialist in Devon/Somerset area

John Leah · Clubman A

I'm not a KTM man so can't suggest anywhere but, if it's only done 37 hours I'd most certainly be talking to Albion first!

Cheers,

John

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

Try Lewis Motors in Chard, ask for Rob Lewis. He looks after my bike and has had / raced many KTM's.

Pete · Devon's Best

With the equivalent of only half a dozen rides done you you should most certainly be taking it back to where you bought it.

Unless it took you years to put 37 hours riding behind you the machine should still have some waranty outstanding, whether that be agreed or implicit.

Goods have to fit for purpose under the trades descriptions act and yours clearly is not

maggotman · Clubman A

why not just do it youself ? if its the rfs engine its very easy to work on

gaschef · Devon's Best

Take it back from where you got it, Pete is right about the trades description act, warranty or not, it is not fit for purpose and you are protected under this legislation

If you average 50mph mutiplied by your 37 Hours the bike has only done 1850 miles, unless you have seriously abused, damaged or modified the bike, you have a fairly good case for asking for a complete repair or your money back

Any problems get onto the Trading Standards Officer at Exeter City Council

An even better idea would be to get them to swap it for a Honda

-- Edited by gaschef on Sunday 21st of August 2011 03:04:59 PM

doh ! · Clubman A

as for taking it back how long have you had it was it new when you got it has it been serviced in accodance with the manual etc etc the list of questions could go on and on hope you get it sorted out soon

James DRZ · Novice

37 hours and has 1007 miles - mainly all off-road miles.

I had a 30 Day warrenty from KTM from new, they would not even replace my fork seals when they went after 19 hours use. Doesn't say much for KTM reliability, should have stuck with my trusty rock solid DRZ.

It has the XC4 engine not the RFS. If its something major internal I don;t know what i'm doing. Although someone suggested to me that the e-starter gear could have failed and jammed things up maybe, so I might take a look at that before taking it into a garage.

Maybe I'll see what Albian say on monday, but i'm pretty sure they just say bring it in and £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

L'orange · Devon's Best

Firstly, speak to albion, ive always found Gary OK, yes he's a sales man but he's also a biker with a reputation to protect. He did several bits on my bike well out of the 30 days.

The fault may also be something simple, so dont panic just yet.

A few of us KTM'ers use Justin Gibbs at saltash, "what he dont know about KTM's...... you know the rest! and he is very reasonable with pricing. 01752 846888.

-- Edited by L'orange on Sunday 21st of August 2011 07:25:39 PM

James DRZ · Novice

Thanks for yor advice guys, will call Albian tomorrow. If no good I'll try your suggestions on where to go next.

Simmo · Clubman A

L'orange wrote:
ive always found Gary OK

He came to my 18th Birthday party so he can't be that bad! biggrin

L'orange · Devon's Best

Were was the party Channings Wood?

Simmo · Clubman A

L'orange wrote:
Were was the party Channings Wood?

No, NP, he was never in prison! biggrin Can't remember much that far back but Hampster may have been at party too...

-- Edited by Simmo on Sunday 21st of August 2011 08:27:48 PM

James DRZ · Novice

Having trouble finding a good workshop manual for the bike, can anyone point me in the right direction the purchase/download a manual for EXC450 2010 model (2008-2011) with XC4 engine? ?

Thanks

James DRZ · Novice

For your info, spent MANY hours searching for a place to buy/download the XC4 KTM engine manual, fianlly found it on Thumpertalk. Hope it helps someone out:

Workshop manual (repair manual) KTM 530EXC & KTM 450EXC (XC4 engine)

http://www.keustermans.nl/Ktm_530exc...al_English.pdf

James DRZ · Novice

My bike is now at Albion. Turns out its a bearing failure around the Cam, needle bearings fell out after a clip dropped out. The needle bearings have dropped into the engine via cam chain, engine needs to be stripped apart to retrive all broken parts.

Couldn't be much worse really, my faith in KTM has completely died.

The service chaps at Albion seem ok, but its all up to the main KTM guys about if they are going to pay for anything. All they have said so far is that I will defo have to pay for all labour, they might pay for parts, how generous. Labour so far is up to £350!!!!!!!!

Can't believe this on a new bike, not sure what to do now, as if the costs spiral I won't to able to afford to fix it and I'll have to sell it on. All this on a bike which cost me over £6000 nine months ago??

Has anyone ever had dealings with KTM like this before ? - please help!

jt · Powermonger!!

Oooooo

I'm a katoom fan but have to say that is pants with a capital P and would seriously make me think twice before I purchased a new un hmm

Sorry bud cry

Another good reason to stick with a 2 stroke though wink kerching....

James DRZ · Novice

Should never have left Suzuki, never had a major problem with any Suzuki.

John Leah · Clubman A

You may have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act. They may try to hide behind the woefully short manufacturers warranty but something must be of 'merchantable quality' and a motorcycle that goes bang after so short a time clearly isn't. Talk to Citizen's Advice.

Good luck.

Cheers,

John

gaschef · Devon's Best

John Leah wrote:

You may have a claim under the Sale of Goods Act. They may try to hide behind the woefully short manufacturers warranty but something must be of 'merchantable quality' and a motorcycle that goes bang after so short a time clearly isn't. Talk to Citizen's Advice.
Good luck.
Cheers,
John

Just to reiterate what John said, The goods must be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose which they are not, so it is an offence under the sale of goods act, unless you have raced the bike then no warranty would be valid

Try the following

Exeter Trading Standards officer.

Any trade organisation that Albion belong to

Its worth talking to your solicitor

Take an advert out in Trail magazine

Try BBC watchdog or Rouge Traders or Just talk to the National Press

You could even try Clarkson!!!!!!

Simmo · Clubman A

Write to KTM?

MCN?

You are just lucky that your sidestand didn't snap off too!

gaschef · Devon's Best

Simmo wrote:
Write to KTM?
MCN?
You are just lucky that your sidestand didn't snap off too!

Coming soon I have just about finished the first batch of STEEL ktm replacement stands and will shortly have a sidestand bolts finished that are not made of chocolate

Both items will be less that KTM prices

Nige · Expert

Good luck with it James I hope you get a result
Lord knows why it needs a bearing on the cam.
1 bit you might stumble on is the cams ,who has taken them out shiming? Just insist the valves have always been checked and were in tollerance every time.

doh ! · Clubman A

I hope you do get it sorted but in all the cases when i have bought new bikes be it gas gas kawasaki yamaha the longest warranty was 6 months as they are race bikes and are subject to strict maintanance schedules and manufacturers know most owners / racers do there own work and push the bounderies of what the manual says . Good luck with yours

James DRZ · Novice

doh ! wrote:
I hope you do get it sorted but in all the cases when i have bought new bikes be it gas gas kawasaki yamaha the longest warranty was 6 months as they are race bikes and are subject to strict maintanance schedules and manufacturers know most owners / racers do there own work and push the bounderies of what the manual says . Good luck with yours

Just learned that husqvarna do a 2 year warranty on their enduro bikes. Interesting to know for future when choosing a bike, beats 30 day KTM disbelief

James DRZ · Novice

Hard to know how to approach the trading standards route, the guys at Albion are ok, the last thing I want to do is piss them off, how can I get through to KTM without rocking the boat at the dealer? or am I just being too nice?

Simmo · Clubman A

too nice, you need to explore your options

http://www.devon.gov.uk/business/trading_standards.htm

-- Edited by Simmo on Friday 2nd of September 2011 02:46:47 PM

John Leah · Clubman A

Trading Standards will tell you NOT to contact KTM as your contract is with the retailer.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Albion's feelings as they're the ones who'll be presenting you with a big bill and you can be sure they won't give two hoots about pissing you off.

Cheers,

John

Pete · Devon's Best

John is right.
If you can afford to worry about Albion's feelings then you can afford to pay to fix the junk they misled you to believe was a motorcycle.

'Fit for purpose' is what all goods on sale must be by law.

You can hire bikes by the day for what you have paid by the hour

6000
____ = £162/hour

37

It would be reasonable to expect a new machine to reach it's first mot without a major failure.
IE tyres, chains, brake pads & wheel bearings are consumables. Engines are not.

Most initially obstinate retailers change their tune when an unhappy punter digs his heels in and starts making enough noise to attract the attention of other customers who may have second thoughts when they hear your tale of what they can expect. Be polite, but don't let them fob you off because as John says you have a contract with them not KTM, don't leave without satisfaction and don't be shy about complaining loudly in front of other customers in the shop. Don't let them start to deal with another customer until you are satisfied. If violence results the police and press will help and they won't want that. If forced to leave you could walk up and down the pavement outside with a sandwich board and they won't be able to prevent that, or the press interest that would result.

You could instigate a court action in the small claims court and they will very likely cave in beforehand, but you will first need to book a date and make it clear to the court that you have tried every other reasonable avenue already.
Write asking for a repair and be clear that you will need to satisfy the court that every effort has been exhausted beforehand so reminders and deadlines should be sent and set and kept to.

Sadly it seems to be generally accepted that sidestands (among other parts) regularly fall off what must be one of the most expensive brands available, as you will see from the mickey taking on this forum.

So ask for what you paid for, unless you raced it of course then you are stuck with it

KronreifTrunkenpolzMattighofen · Devon's Best

Did you buy it on a credit card?

If so you could always approach the issuer, and, depending on their T's & C's, if they are within the timescale then they may be able to recall the payment from Albion and credit it back to you.

I wouldn't blame Albion for this, but, they do have an obligation to make sure the products with which they associate themselves with are fit for purpose. I would like to think that they would be pursuing this FOR you with KTM.

It would be worthwhile pursuing the warrenty issue as well. I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that all products made within the EU must come with a 2yr warrenty.

Good luck mate.

-- Edited by nickpdo on Friday 2nd of September 2011 12:31:24 PM

Simmo · Clubman A

nickpdo wrote:
I may be wrong but I am pretty sure that all products made within the EU must come with a 2yr warrenty.

Consumer goods only? TVs etc. Everything should have a 1yr warranty but as KTM are classed as low output supplier they are probably exempt.

Your best bet would be to start with Citizens Advice if KTM aren'tprepared to play ball with Albion.

You could always invade Austria in protest at their motorcycles but history does not advise it.

-- Edited by Simmo on Friday 2nd of September 2011 02:54:08 PM

L'orange · Devon's Best

James, ablion didnt worry to much about my credit card balance when i gave them 6K+ so you should pursue this issue.

Personally i want the new 350exc if it proves to be OK in 12 months time (subject to the finnancial officers approval), your experience at this point may disuade me if its not sorted.

I had a few little niggles within 9 months of owning the bike, which they sorted under warrenty, so there is a warrenty if they feel like using it.

Whats the score right now, do they have the bike and what have you agreed to?

Pete · Devon's Best

nickpdo wrote:
Did you buy it on a credit card?

If so you could always approach the issuer, and, depending on their T's & C's, if they are within the timescale then they may be able to recall the payment from Albion and credit it back to you.

A very good point indeed. This could be your best approach. Goods remain the property of the credit card company until paid in full. Tell your card issuer that since the goods are not fit for purpose then you will not pay and they will recover the money on your behalf.

I often buy goods on my card even when I have the cash because of the extra level of insurance involved.

James DRZ · Novice

L'orange wrote:
James, ablion didnt worry to much about my credit card balance when i gave them 6K+ so you should pursue this issue.

Personally i want the new 350exc if it proves to be OK in 12 months time (subject to the finnancial officers approval), your experience at this point may disuade me if its not sorted.

I had a few little niggles within 9 months of owning the bike, which they sorted under warrenty, so there is a warrenty if they feel like using it.

Whats the score right now, do they have the bike and what have you agreed to?

Current stituation:

Albion have may bike. They have just looked at the top end of the engine at mo. Next wednesday they are striping down the engine to investigate. KTM headoffice have instructed them to take photo's and file a report back to them. Then we wait for them to tell me if they are going to pay for any parts, they have already said that I will have to most likely pay for the labour.

This seems odd to me anyhow, if a defective part has broken, then just paying for a cheap part does not really help as 99% of the cost is the labour charges?

As far a how I purchased I did something slightly odd, paid half on debit card, half on credit card then transferred belance to a 0% deal. So not sure If I can use the credit card protection approach now.

jt · Powermonger!!

How many of us use(d) Albion? - I do/did.......

If it was my buisness and I knew this thread was in exsistance then I'd be keen to sort this out to your satisfaction.

I would imagine his forum can do much for the buisness - good or bad blankstare there are allready 2 of us who have stated that the way this issue is resolved will make us think about future purchases.

I always say to my 'stakeholders' - if your happy with the service tell all - if there is a problem tell me. A customer problem resolved well can do more for your trade than a customer who has no issue!

John Leah · Clubman A

As far a how I purchased I did something slightly odd, paid half on debit card, half on credit card then transferred belance to a 0% deal. So not sure If I can use the credit card protection approach now.

Provided a customer has a valid complaint under the Sale of Goods or Misrepresentation Acts then a Section 75 claim may be made even if only the deposit was made using a credit card. So, you splitting the cost doesn't prevent you from claiming all your losses from the credit card company.

Cheers,

John

JC · Clubman B

Given my recent experiences with that establishment, I couldn't recommend any motorcycle workshop who don't have a welder

doh ! · Clubman A

I think that lots of people are jumping on the have a go at Albion band wagon they dont make the bike only sell it as i stated earlier i hope it was maintained to the manufacturers guidline either by yousrself with written accounts of hours etc or a dealer as this will help with your case at the end of the day Albion are good enough to give a discount to TRF how long will this continue if this thread continues after all this is a matter between yourself and KTM with Albion as the local dealer who sold you the machine do you honestly think it would be any different had you purchased it through JD racing Fowlers or any other dealer for that matter

jt · Powermonger!!

Who took his money?

And I'm hoping that it will be dealt with better than it would have been by JD,Fowlers etc - then when and if I want to renew my KTM I will go and get it from Albion instead of them won't I?

'They didn't make it - just sell it' - If I had spent any amount of money on a product that was defective, returned to the retailer and was told that..........well...... evileye

I'm not knocking them - but am very interested to see how they and KTM deal with it and wether you, they or KTM think its right, fair or otherwise IT WILL have an effect on my future decisions about buying (if I was ever going to) a new KTM.

If I was Albion I would not be thinking of withdrawing the 10% discount but looking on this as a huge oppertunity to prove how good they are at looking after customers and secure some future ones...

JC · Clubman B

I don't think it's a question of people 'having a go'......everyone has different experiences with businesses and people posting are simply reflecting on positive or negative scenarios with a particular establishment.

What I do think is sad is that manufacturers rarely seem to stand by their product when it comes to a warranty - there always seems to be a reason that it's not their fault, even if it's a design flaw or simply things not being built to last. I have found this many times in my line of work, as well as with personal things I have bought.

Good luck my friend in sorting your bike problem out, I hope the balance shifts in your favour.

James DRZ · Novice

Hi all,

Thanks for all your posts of support and various opinions.

I will be updating everyone with progress on my bike. Here's hoping that KTM will help me out. I will know more on wednesday when the engine is stripped.

I must say that the guys at albion have been helpful so far, i'm just waiting on the response from KTM head office, I'm hoping albion will be fighting my case for me.

James DRZ · Novice

doh ! wrote:
I think that lots of people are jumping on the have a go at Albion band wagon they dont make the bike only sell it as i stated earlier i hope it was maintained to the manufacturers guidline either by yousrself with written accounts of hours etc or a dealer as this will help with your case at the end of the day Albion are good enough to give a discount to TRF how long will this continue if this thread continues after all this is a matter between yourself and KTM with Albion as the local dealer who sold you the machine do you honestly think it would be any different had you purchased it through JD racing Fowlers or any other dealer for that matter

Yes you are right, this is about the KTM manufacturer/head office. I would be in the same position if I had bought it at any dealer like you say. At this stage its all down to what the KTM head office are prepaired to do for my bike.

But it is up to Albion to fight my case for me at this stage.

John Leah · Clubman A

James DRZ wrote:
..., this is about the KTM manufacturer/head office.

Yes, but... you don't have a contract with KTM - you have a contract with Albion who have obligations to you under English consumer law.

James DRZ wrote:

But it is up to Albion to fight my case for me at this stage.

Albion should be fighting over this but for themselves. The advice people here are giving is in response to the concerns you voiced that Albion would present you with a bill and you'd have to sell the bike to settle it; you said Albion had already told you the bill for labour was £350 and rising with possibly parts on top.

This isn't gratuitous knocking of a dealer who is a friend of the TRF as they're big enough to survive but a genuine attempt to help a fellow biker gain the service to which he's entitled.

Doh! raised the question that is very pertinent: In the nine months before failing was the bike serviced and maintained by an authorised KTM dealer? That could swing the argument!

Cheers,

John

phil400 · Clubman A

surely the labour and parts from albion could be 'donated' to you?
then albion should be sorting it out with ktm and it really shouldn't be your problem!

any dealer can sell you or me a new bike but if there is a problem be it big or small how it is delt with by the dealer would make a huge difference to where many people on here would shop.
when you get the outcome you should let as many people as who will listen know how good/bad you were dealt with. word of mouth is the best advert for any business but also it can be the worst!

doug9270 · Powermonger!!

30 day warranty is a little tight, makes me wonder if KTM dont have much faith in their engineering !!! Seeing KTM sell huge amounts of machines and make big profits i cannot understand there strong stance with regard to repair costs, then again as a dealer (franchise) albion have to pay there bills/staff etc.

Lets just see what happens and make any judgement then.

Oscar666 · Novice

James

This guy is in Bristol but knows KTM's inside out. I'm taking mine over tis morning....his name is John Unity Road Motorcycles keynsahm, 0117 986 3267. They are your side of Bristol.

Let me know how you get on.

Steve

Monty · Clubman B

Been watching this thread develop - some interesting views and opinions here - what the forums all about I guess. Thought I'd add mine.
I'd be very surprised if you get any joy with either Albion or KTM - I hope for your sake I'm wrong , crappy situation to find yourself in, broken new bike and no money to fix it - but a 9 month old bike is exactly that. 37 hours means bugger all - it takes a second to disconnect the clocks. If it hasnt been dealer serviced then they have absolutely no proof that its been looked after. Any fool can not do the oil changes, run it low, forget to fill it up before starting it - any number of things might have happened to it in those 9 months. It might have been raced, over revved and boiled in a welsh bog, or super moto,d to death on track days. I'm not for a moment suggesting any of those things have happened, but you can bet thats what Albion and KTM will be thinking.

Theres an awful lot of KTM's out there, and you very rarely hear of them breaking down. Go to any H and H or enduro and there's rakes of the things - if they were unreliable , the racing community simply wouldnt buy them. A 30 day guarantee on what is essentially a race bike that will almost certainly be home serviced seems pretty reasonable to me. A lot can happen to a race bike in 30 days. Any one know what guarantee KTM offer on their road bikes? I've no idea, but I bet its not 30 days.

Like i said, I really hope you get a result on this, but I wouldnt hold your breath. At the end of the day its a machine, and any machine can break at any time.

jt · Powermonger!!

James DRZ wrote:

Just learned that husqvarna do a 2 year warranty on their enduro bikes. Interesting to know for future when choosing a bike, beats 30 day KTM

MMMmmmm - I think you have been taught badly young obiwan....

Model Year 2011 - Motorcycle Warranty

All non-modified 599cc and under 4-stroke Enduro and Supermoto models come with a six-month/unlimited mileage warranty against manufacturing defects and workmanship that covers parts and labor. This includes the TE250 / 310 / 449 / 511 and SM449 / 511 models.

All non-modified 600cc+ displacement Enduro and Supermoto models come with a one-year/unlimited mileage warranty against manufacturing defects and workmanship that covers parts and labor. This includes both the TE630 and SMS630 models.

All other Husqvarna motorcycles are sold as off-road competition racing bikes. Due to the extreme demands and severe conditions these machines are subject to, no comprehensive warranty can be offered. A limited 30-day warranty is offered on all bikes against manufacturing defects and workmanship. This warranty covers parts only. Includes: All Motocross, Cross-Country and 2-stroke Enduro models: CR150; TC250 / 449; TXC250 / 449 / 511; WR150 / 250 / 300.

devondan · Champion

6 months is still better than 30 days though?!
Dan

James DRZ · Novice

jt wrote:
James DRZ wrote:

Just learned that husqvarna do a 2 year warranty on their enduro bikes. Interesting to know for future when choosing a bike, beats 30 day KTM

MMMmmmm - I think you have been taught badly young obiwan....

Model Year 2011 - Motorcycle Warranty

All non-modified 599cc and under 4-stroke Enduro and Supermoto models come with a six-month/unlimited mileage warranty against manufacturing defects and workmanship that covers parts and labor. This includes the TE250 / 310 / 449 / 511 and SM449 / 511 models.

All non-modified 600cc+ displacement Enduro and Supermoto models come with a one-year/unlimited mileage warranty against manufacturing defects and workmanship that covers parts and labor. This includes both the TE630 and SMS630 models.

All other Husqvarna motorcycles are sold as off-road competition racing bikes. Due to the extreme demands and severe conditions these machines are subject to, no comprehensive warranty can be offered. A limited 30-day warranty is offered on all bikes against manufacturing defects and workmanship. This warranty covers parts only. Includes: All Motocross, Cross-Country and 2-stroke Enduro models: CR150; TC250 / 449; TXC250 / 449 / 511; WR150 / 250 / 300.

Form the Husqvarna website under 449??:

The TE449 benefits from a comprehensive 2 year manufacturers warranty.

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