Devon TRF Group Forum

Cant give my opinion as i have not tried one.

But, i do know that ryan dungey uses one for the ama motocross 450 class. He is one of the fastest riders out there at the moment.

I also know that jonny walker uses one for extreme enduros such as romaniacs.   So guess they must be prety good! 

On the other hand, graham jarvis doesnt use one and he is the king of extreme enduro.   

 

i know this wont be much help but i am just as stuck about them as you are!

On mine it will lock the rear wheel up and when you let go of the brake I just get the same engine breaking that I would have had without the Rekluse. It depends how its setup. Mine will never engage neutral and the second I'm on the throttle its off. I do however get resistance when locking the rear up as if the clutch hasn't been pulled in. If you skid for long enough however the Rekluse will simulate neutral to stop you stalling and continue when your back on the throttle.

Biff wrote:

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What do you think your back brake is for!!

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Pulling away up hill & hand brake turns - what else?

4T engine braking is ace, just like ABS/traction control/decsent control all-in-one - my rear pads last ages.

-- Edited by RichT4 on Wednesday 31st of October 2012 11:49:42 AM

No, only a slight engine breaking effect, although mines on a 2t.

What do you think your back brake is for!!

just ordered another exp core one for my new h&h steed a 2t ktm the zstart pro in my 450 ktm has all hinson internals and make it so smooth love the lhrb

well i think they are the shin dig. never ever had arm pump. can ride the 450 for 3 hours easy  in an event with the rekluse. not sure i could so easy without it. was gona try the new bike without it but i dont see the point in not having one.

-- Edited by Vikings on Wednesday 31st of October 2012 10:22:07 PM

Vikings wrote:

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just ordered another exp core one for my new h&h steed a 2t ktm the zstart pro in my 450 ktm has all hinson internals and make it so smooth love the lhrb

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 What's the difference between a Z Start and an EXP Core?

Copied from another forum, may answer some questions




Pros: They do most of your clutch work for you. Some say they help them get through the tough stuff. They say they get less tired using one. Does that about cover it? I think so. I think there are more "pros." I'll list specifics in addressing your cons below.

Cons:
1- Rear tire will freewheel since the engine is essentially in neutral when you stall on a steep hill. With a regular clutch the motor will hold the back tire from freewheeling. True. But even with a standard clutch, you have to pull it in or put the bike in neutral to get started. So the front brake is the only thing holding the bike from sliding backwards at some point. With the autoclutch, I never stall on a hill. If I come to a stop, the bike just patiently idles. All my bikes have also had the dual actuated LHRB. The pros of which are for another discussion...
2- Engine braking is very altered and somewhat unpredictable. Not so. Correct tuning of the clutch makes engine braking unchanged.
3- Can't pull start or bump start the bike. Agreed. Probably the one true drawback. But really only a factor if you have an e-start only bike.
4- Increased cost of the parts and installation if you can't do it yourself. [COLOR="Red"Yep. Costs $ for sure. But for me it is a valuable tool. Like a steering stabilizer. Install is DYI. If someone can't install it themselves, he can't change a tire or a sparkplug. So he'll need to work on his mechanical skills our this sport will be VERY expensive... [/COLOR]
5- Decreased reliability. Many will argue this, but I sure have seen and ridden alot of bikes with auto-clutches that don't work properly. Sure, you can adjust them, but not as easily as simply having a hydraulic or cable operated normal clutch. Reliability hasn't been an issue for me. I have taken time to set them up properly. Agreed that there is a bit more maintenance required to keep the gap in spec. But the new Core EXP is the easiest to adjust and maintain. Not an issue any more.
6- Operation changes with wear. I once started a long ride with an autoclutch. By the half-day mark, the engagement was very different. There was a significant lag between my application of throttle and it engaging. By the end of the second day, there was about a 1.5 second lag between the clutch engaging when trying to jump a log or whatever obstacle, and my application of the clutch and throttle. Very hard to predict. If your gap got out of spec during a ride, its because you had never, ever checked it since install. If there is a lot of wear, its because the clutch is being abused. Its an auto clutch, not an auto tranny. The rider still has to be in the correct gear. Any rider can smoke a standard clutch in one ride by abusing it.
7- Makes you lazy. Rather than stay on top of your clutch operation skills, you expect the clutch to work itself. Which is fine until it decides to quit working consistently. Lazy is poor word choice. Its a tool that makes me a better and faster rider.
8- Did I miss anything? No. For those that don't like auto clutches you pretty much covered what others have said.

I think the cons are worse than the pros. I cede your viewpoint as one mans point of view. But my viewpoint is that I think the pros far outweigh the cons...

I also theorize that a big part of what many riders like about autoclutches is that they add "flywheel effect". Which can also be accomplished by a hundred buck flywheel weight that never needs adjusting and takes 20 minutes to install. No, I don't work for Steahly, but they should hire me. I have never noticed the flywheel effect. The clutch spins so much slower than the flywheel, that mass added there has very little effect.

I'm ducking the thrown roost now! Autoclutch lovers swear by them. But have they really tried the alternatives of learning how to use the clutch properly, and maybe a flywheel weight, or even simply practicing and checking lap times both ways? Very few pros use them, even most of the Extreme Enduro guys don't use them. Very few pro GNCC, Nat. Enduro, MX, WORCS, OMA, ISDE guys use them. A few do, but not many. I would argue that there are more than a "few" elite riders that use an auto clutch. I have very competent clutch skills honed over 4 decades of riding. But no one is perfect. Less than perfect clutch work happens to every rider on every ride. Except me: Cuz I have an auto clutch...

I've tried it both ways. Autoclutches absolutely do help at times. They truly do have a few good points. But I think they have far more bad points, and many riders who use them simply aren't really giving an honest shot to not using one with proper setup and practice. I think they are putting a bandaid on their problems of not setting up their bike as best they can for themselves, and not learning how to ride without the bandaid. I don't think its a bandaid. Those that love the auto clutch have added a piece of gear that greatly adds to their enjoyment of the sport. That's pretty much it.

I think I'm gonna need some bandaids when they start throwing worn out ramps, balls, and clutch plates at me. And Rekluse instructions they ball up in their fists. The Core EXP lookes very, very reliable to me. I'm betting that it will last as long as my stock components.

they are if you have a clutch overide. but we dont "do" wheelies around these parts jack!!!!

have you got the clutch overide biff? or a lhrb?

the lhrb set up is ace. do you use your clutch overide much?

I've run a Rekluse on a 530 EXC for a few months and don't expect I'd ever to go back to manual clutching on a green lane bike. As others have said, it doesn't turn the bike into a scooter - you still need to select the correct gear - but it does mean the engine won't stall if you let the revs drop. Biggest benefit for me is I fall off far less often because I don't need to manually slip the clutch on knarly / technical climbs, and so can focus on choosing the right line and getting balance and my body position right. Take a climb like Ruggerdon (spelling?) as an example; before it brought a chill to my heart and now I say bring it on. That translates into more fun for me, but others might say the auto clutch is cheating and takes the challenge away. Obviously it's a personal choice. Downside is the potential loss of engine breaking on descents. Its not an all the time thing but going down something like Simms Hill illustates the issue nicely... Now I'm not tech savvy but what's happening is that as revs fall the clutch disengages. If I'm not in first gear, changing down brings the revs up and the drive/engine breaking is restored. If its really steep and already in 1st gear then pull in the clutch (clutch lever does still function) and blip the throttle to get the revs up, and although it's not a natural response, be prepared to increase speed to a level that the clutch re-engages and breaking is restored. I should add the revs at which the clutch 'bites' is adjustable, I think, but I've not yet tried to make the change. It's not too hard to do though. And mine hasn't gone even slightly out of 'tune'. Rather, it's been fit and play from day one. Big thumbs up from me.

how do you bump start your bike how do you plod round at 2000 rpm ? klunking it down gears ? how do you stall it ?   nahh  cant be good all the extra heat from the extra friction ?

 

Seems to me, on the whole, that those with no personal experience tend to be anti, and those that do know say they like them. Draw your own conclusions.

I rode vikings old 450 with the rekluse on it, i can see the advantages but it doesn't appeal to me in any way, especially the massive purchase price ! Its just like driving a auto car, boring as sin. Also im sure it causes accelerated gearbox wear. and more wear on starter components as people insist its fine to "start in gear"

delvey91 wrote:

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I rode vikings old 450 with the rekluse on it, i can see the advantages but it doesn't appeal to me in any way, especially the massive purchase price ! Its just like driving a auto car, boring as sin. Also im sure it causes accelerated gearbox wear. and more wear on starter components as people insist its fine to "start in gear"

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Nothing wrong with having an opinion (so I won't argue if you think it boring) but how do you justify saying they result in gearbox and starter wear? Starting a Rekluse bike 'in gear' is the same as a regular bike with the clutch lever pulled in. And if you'd put your bike in neutral them there's nothing stopping you doing the same to a Rekluse'd bike.

To be honest I've rode Darren's up Simms a couple of times to get him out of bother and it really hasn't shone for me - but haven't really given it a good try.

I also feel for some over powered bikes - like Biffs 300 they help tame it and make it a more manageable ride.

Think there is some truth in the fact it calms it. But I think if it works for some then good times! If not then so be it. Love the lhrb more than anything else. Got the foot brake aswell so good times alround

Laziness is next to godliness. Lol. Plus as you know I can't help but spunk monies on my bikes just can't help myself. Lol. Plus I'm sure that rekluse wouldn't be where it is today unless it was a good idea. For me it was after Kev at Albion had a go on my bike with one on then went and got himself one that I relised they must be worth it if a rider like him thought they were a good worthwhile thang. It's like electric windows in a car.

Looks like ive opened a can of worms here. Everyones comments/opinions much appreciated. Think I will hold off from making the purchase until I have tried one. And on that subject Vikings, are we riding tomorrow?

LewisDelve wrote:

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If you can ride properly I can't see the need for one.

Lewis.

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 You could say the same about wearing body armour and boots (non compulsary safety wear) but we all do.

Not sure its about riding properly (as a lot of expert class racers use them) its about possibly giving you an edge during racing & if you are laning it can make your life easier & somewhat lazier & calm down some otherwise aggressive bikes -- probably pushing you to try a few things you otherwise wouldnt.

But then there's the classic riders (the majority actually) who love the clutch and all it stands for -- or who simply cant afford a rekluse. I dont have one but I see the clear benefits.

May be one day............. maybe not

Wheely wrote:

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To be honest I've rode Darren's up Simms a couple of times to get him out of bother and it really hasn't shone for me - but haven't really given it a good try.

I also feel for some over powered bikes - like Biffs 300 they help tame it and make it a more manageable ride.

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 The rekluse doe's not tame the bike down. The GasGas is a Jekyll and hyde machine. Loads of low down torque with soft power for the tricky bits, but with the bonus

of a nice "hit" when you want / need it

Got mine to stop it stalling, which was an issue when the bike was new and a bit tight (moor to sea & ten tors).

It really comes into it's own on slippery accents and technical bits,

but then I'm just a below average rider, unlike the dave knights of clutch control on here

Ace bit of kit if you can afford it

Biff how do you get on with it on Ten Tors, Moor 2 Sea etc? Liz has one on each of her bikes and swears by them.

oh..just one other thing....dont dunk it under water...it wont stall..and will do untold damage..as no doubt Wheely is updating my Water Woes thread