Over the years we've changed Ride Reports to be a public viewable section, then to site subscribers only (which includes non paying DTRF members) and now to paying DTRF members only.
I remember many new people who joined the DTRF stating (either at the meetings or on the forum) how they had read and saw photos/videos of the excellent times we had and how that had easily convinvced them to pay their DTRF money and join (especially those that had images of us ALL being older men, with beards, riding older bikes with open faced helmets -- note nothing wrong with the few of you that choose to look this way ). But now we have no visibility of this on our forum.
You can see plenty of "work-arounds" already - and videos and pics now often show up on the Ride-Out section. These are simply appended to the end of the ride request and you can see exactly why this is done.
I know the thoughts were we didnt want the "antis" having extra ammo in using our pictures/videos against us -- but seeing what we are doing is fuilly legal and seeing how these people can take their own pictures or view on youtube, facebook etcetc, then I fee providing we are not doing anything illegal (eg cut out the wheelies and air-time) then what are we trying to hide?? I also ask myself the question of do we really think that every single paying member we have is a fully legitimate bike rider - as the sceptic in me says there will be definately at least 1 member who is from the opposition who simply pays a subscription to try and get information that he/she could use against us in the future.
So I feel that we should bring this hidden section back to all those that sign up as a member on the DTRF web site - and show those people (99% of who will be members or possible new members) exactly what our fun and legal hobby is really about. What have we to hide?
As you say Mark many people have mentioned the draw of seeing all the fun there is to be had from the reports. I myself saw run reports being posted showing the excellent cameraderie and good humoured fun along with the badgers and decided to rejoin after a few years away from the group.
After all since the Runs Rides Out section is restricted to TRF members only there is an incentive to join and pay TRF subs to get access. Showing people what they are missing out on should provide an extra incentive and is sure to draw more people in.
It still makes sense to keep the Lane Clearing and Rights Of Way sections private along with the Runs and Rides Out part but the Run Reports are a good advert for us which we can, and I believe should, capitalise on.
I agree with your suggestion. We have nothing to hide and everthing to gain.
A subject for discussion at next weeks meeting at the Dolphin methinks.
I think that's spot on Wheely, going on from that I'd personally make the 'For Sale' section a members only area, as so many non-members benefit from selling their wares on here and at no cost.
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Culmstock area - Devon TRF Group member - KTM 690 Enduro
I think we have just found the mole in the group - Wheely, expect a knock on the door any time soon.
For Sale section - I totally agree, well sort off..
Stopping non-members from posting items may be denying member from seeing goods that they'd want.
I think it'd be better to ask non-members to pay a forum subscription to use the For Sale section. Other forums I use charge £5 to £10/year to become a forum member and with that you are allowed to sell things, the option would be to join the TRF and sell for free.
Finally the open run reports - as a rider I'm keen to see them open again, as a Mod I'm not.
It's difficult to judge what looks ok and what doesn't. After a member has spent time putting up a run report they may get defensive if a mod blunders along and edits it. Then you have to try and make sure that all reports are moderated to the same level (not an easy task) or a small war breaks out on here! Even with the best of intentions it'll only be a matter of time before someone sees something they don't like and then the mods will start receiving PM's.
Maybe a workable system would be that all new reports go in an open section but if they stray off the line they just get moved behind the wall, that way the own-ness is on the poster to ensure the run report stays in the open.
We could go back to putting suitable run reports on the website - when I looked after the website I tired a "run report of the month", as nominated by forum members. Whilst it started OK apathy soon kicked in and nominations died.
Good thread, and it seems plenty of people have a view, which is good. Why not put it to a forum vote of what is and what is not available to all, with only current TRF members having a right to vote?
-- Edited by nickpdo on Wednesday 3rd of April 2013 05:23:09 PM
Finally the open run reports - as a rider I'm keen to see them open again, as a Mod I'm not.
It's difficult to judge what looks ok and what doesn't. After a member has spent time putting up a run report they may get defensive if a mod blunders along and edits it. Then you have to try and make sure that all reports are moderated to the same level (not an easy task) or a small war breaks out on here! Even with the best of intentions it'll only be a matter of time before someone sees something they don't like and then the mods will start receiving PM's.
Maybe a workable system would be that all new reports go in an open section but if they stray off the line they just get moved behind the wall, that way the own-ness is on the poster to ensure the run report stays in the open.
I would suggest that you adopt a similar system that is used on my forum, whereby only approved users can see and access run reports (and in my case more or less anything else), this does put more workload on the admin though as only they have access to approve forum users as far as I know. Members known to admin or other approved members get access, anyone else doesn't, paying member or not!! and if you have a "mole" in the midst, shut em out now. That way only those you want to have access can read and post reports can view. Forum can show the section but only approved users get access.
Having a public open ride report section could be handled again by admin, make the section read only so no-one can else can post, admin can select a few now and then from the run report forum as they see fit.
It does mean more work for the admin, but if you really want to protect peoples interest then its a way forward.
Really if it was my forum I would dump several sections as they are undersubscribed and barely used. If you wish to retain them simply make them sub cats, it would tidy up the forum page considerably allowing it viewed easier having less content particularly for those on hand held devices.
.......and while you are about it make the ride out section approved only.
I know there are plenty that will throw a wobbly over that, but when you think about having it approved only makes sense. Far too easy when people post up a meeting place and time and date for an undesired presence making an appearance. It often is not too difficult either to work out where a ride may take them as well.
I know this all sounds paranoid but it helps to keep things to quote Meet the fockers "in the circle of trust"
.......and while you are about it make the ride out section approved only.
Far too easy when people post up a meeting place and time and date for an undesired presence making an appearance.
I know this all sounds paranoid but it helps to keep things to quote Meet the fockers "in the circle of trust"
That would be an own goal really as the point is to encourage riders to come out with us and give it a try - that's how you get to know the people you put in your circle of trust. ....or have I got it wrong?
Meeting details should be via PM really.
....and just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't all out to get you, especially you!
FBF wrote: I would suggest that you adopt a similar system that is used on my forum, whereby only approved users can see and access run reports
I dunno about this. It's certainly a good way to control access but could be un-workable on a large forum.
I suppose it wouldn't take long for everyone to vouch for each other but the whole point of showing the run reports (or the point being discussed here) is to encourage the lurkers to come forward. With your system they wouldn't be able to see any run reports.
They will be able to see the selected run reports on the "read only" public forum, which should be enough tbh. The rest reside in an approved users forum so more or less anything goes so it is not necessary to wade through a raft of run reports to see if they are suitable for public consumption.
.......and while you are about it make the ride out section approved only.
Far too easy when people post up a meeting place and time and date for an undesired presence making an appearance.
I know this all sounds paranoid but it helps to keep things to quote Meet the fockers "in the circle of trust"
That would be an own goal really as the point is to encourage riders to come out with us and give it a try - that's how you get to know the people you put in your circle of trust. ....or have I got it wrong?
Meeting details should be via PM really.
....and just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't all out to get you, especially you!
Agreed, meeting and details by PM, not everyone does that unfortunately. You are right about encouraging riders out to give it a try, but sometimes the pace or direction is too much and they can get put off, been there and done it. Days gone by there were plenty newbie runs in the days of Xdribble and the much maligned TJ era but less so now.
Perhaps maybe an encouragement of newbie ride outs might go down well.
Not a problem on our private forum as we are all except for a few, enduro gods ie equally gifted at falling off and making an arse of ourselves.
How does one go about an 'Approved Users Only" on a county wide forum that has what 800+ members? The idea of the TRF isn't to operate behind closed doors as we have nothing to hide. How many times has anyone advertised a run with the meeting place/time included - and subsequently been met by an anti?? I know of no-one in this class. Nor do the meeting places generally give much away (although I agree sometimes we state roughly where we're heading) - but again I've not bumped into anyone hostile as a result of this.
I dont want to make excessive work for admin, just put something back in place that makes us look as attractive today as it was a few years ago. If you have Run Report Rules and its clear what can and cant be posted - then there's no excuse for modding something out. If a run report gets locked for DTRF members only in the first instance, but then can be unlocked (on admin approval) for public viewing then that is fine by me too.
I do understand if anyone runs their own forum then they have the right to vet and reject anyone they may not know personally - but this is the Devon TRF - let's welcome ALL.
.......and while you are about it make the ride out section approved only.
Already open to TRF members only isn't it? If not, it bloody well should be.
I know there are plenty that will throw a wobbly over that, but when you think about having it approved only makes sense. Far too easy when people post up a meeting place and time and date for an undesired presence making an appearance. It often is not too difficult either to work out where a ride may take them as well.
This has never happened in my experience. I don't count the one occasion someone brought their son along without telling me they were coming because we want new members. You appear paranoid.
I know this all sounds paranoid but it helps to keep things to quote Meet the fockers "in the circle of trust"
You are paranoid. Good way to go if you want to perpetuate the myth of TRF secrecy.
Charging for access is a rotten idea and would put people off. I understand that people who join other forums in order to sell are usually banned when their first post appears in the for sale section.
Clear guidelines as to what is and isn't acceptable are given in the TRF code of conduct and anything not conforming should not be in the run reports section, per se. Moderation of non conformance should be expected, (not bleated about), and a ban for those repeat offenders who 'just don't get it' is the obvious next step. Admin have shown the courage to do this. Not rocket science. Show us out and about and having fun and people will want to join us.
Suggestions of keeping it private so we can show content other than in accordance with the code of conduct seem to forget that Youtube is already in the public domain and viewable by anyone anywhere in the world. It is easy to find such content if you look. Non sequitur.
I think the run reports should be viewable to all - as long as the reports are written in an appropriate way then I can only see benifits to this.....why have they dried up? - personally because for me its a time thing, the same reason I don't post as many rides now
Ride outs the same why not 'open them up'? - then folks can see how active we are, up to the leader if he takes a non TRF member along - and I still 'sort of' apply the you can come twice then join up approach. I used to do a lot of nooby runs and really enjoyed meeting new faces, making new friends (many who are on here ) and having new adventures! And perhaps I should make the effort to do some more now summer is upon us
.......and while you are about it make the ride out section approved only.
Already open to TRF members only isn't it? If not, it bloody well should be.
It is open to registered forum members, unlike run reports which is TRF members only
It does sound as if that is the wrong way round.
It would make sense to limit access to the Runs & Rides Out to members only but allow non members to see what they are missing out on by viewing Run Reports.
We are doing ourselves no favours if we allow non members access to Runs & Rides Out because otherwise there is no incentive to join up.
I thought Runs & Rides Out was only viewable by Devon TRF members, not registered forum users.
I do somewhat disagree with making the ride-outs DTRF paid members only and this doesnt sound a proactive way of getting people on-board. It's like holding someone over the coals and saying look this is what we do and you cant do it unless you pay.
Fixer used to run a strict 1-run for free then join the TRF - but I've never adopted this rule either, nor do I have any plans to do so. If I'm leading a run I'll let you know on here and then allow whoever wants to come. I do feel preference should be given to TRF members if a run is over subscribed - so I could make this consideration.
I like to feel I can take someone out and encourage them to join the TRF of their own accord. Most people know they can ride BOATs and other unclassified white roads (I did well before I joined the TRF) but its educating them in the reasons for joining the TRF - which is really to keep the lanes open and, if necessary, have someone fight your corner. If they choose not to then so be - and unless they are an arse, they'll still be welcome to join my rides -- and I will still encourage them to join every time. In addition, even if they are not a member, they can still be added to the user evidence run-logs so it's not a total loss to the DTRF. And on fun days we get more money out of them too.
A ride report with lane numbers isn't going to interest a non-member as the numbers will be meaningless.
As a member with marked maps I sometimes follow where a run went, but the number of lanes ridden can seem pretty intimidating to a newbie, especially one who is not bike-fit.
I really don't want to be charging around, I want more of a bimble so I can learn at a gentle pace and understand various techniques.
Being unfit (and a fat old git) I get tired and breathless and need to frequently stop, this being exacerbated when needing to pick up after falls.
While we may be able riders on tarmac, it doesn't mean we are confident off tarmac. It's a completely new discipline.
One of the reasons for me to go laning is to enjoy the countryside that the activity allows access to, plus I'm hoping it will help me become a better biker by becoming more at one with the machine.
I really do not want to feel under pressure to go faster than I am comfortable with. Also I'd like to stop and enjoy the scenery from time to time.
Once I start falling off I tend to fall again and again, probably due to loss of confidence. It gets pretty knackering being crap at it!
I don't want to keep falling off unnecessarily just in order to get through a day out, it should be enjoyable not an ordeal.
As a noob I enjoy watching video of the rides, but just watching someone competent all the time gets boring for me and makes me feel inadequate.
I like to see the pratfalls and hear the banter and laughter, and get the sense of people supporting each other rather than just storming about.
I like to read about stuff that people have seen and experienced and had a laugh about, rather than how many miles/lanes/hours were achieved.
I realise this may be of interest to experienced riders, but we are talking about non-members and probably not-yet laners here.
I'm still trying to get my head round putting routes with lanes into my satnav. When I get that sorted I hope to get a headcam and then maybe I can post some bimbly ride reports that will appeal to those riders who presently feel they lack the confidence and stamina to come and try this great activity.
Smeatharpe showed me that we have some very capable and fast riders in the TRF but let's face it, there are many potential members who are older, less fit/strong and slower but want to give it a go.
The TRF members are, I have found, the nuttiest happiest friendliest helpfullest bunch I have come across in a long time.
Please just don't forget some of us are less capable than you, and riding less capable bikes. But we might one day be as good as you. Self excepted, of course!
This is just my personal opinion, I'd be interested if any other noobs/non-members agree.
Cheers, all, and thanks for welcoming me into the group.
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The sign on my cabin door said "Not enough bucks stop here".
Tugboat - you should have a look at a lot my past run reports. I'm not interested in giving lane numbers unless it references a particular issue/concern - I always tried to include a number of decent photo's including referencing all the fun, spills and thrills.
I havent done too many reports over the last year or so, possibly since the move of these reports to the private members only area. I know when I lived in Plymouth and road with KwakaGeoff - we had great feedback over our fun reports containing pics and videos alike - especially from new members.
And rest assured you've picked a hard year and hard time of year to begin to learn to green lane. You'll find in the summer that your falls are quite few and far between (hopefully) - but right now we've had some immense amounts of rain and the lanes are very washed out and rutted because of it.
The TRF members are, I have found, the nuttiest happiest friendliest helpfullest bunch I have come across in a long time.
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Cheers, all, and thanks for welcoming me into the group.
Cheers Tugboat. Who needs run reports with a testimonial like that?
My 2p - run reports should be public, they advertise what we do and what being a TRF member will bring to enrichen a person's life. From a moderator's POV I can understand they can be a bit of a nightmare with people writing **** and ****ed and ****** all the time and the fact that the forum is the public face of DGTRF and it is monitored by the antis and rambliars.
This isn't just any motorcycle forum it is a Carlsberg model which has purposes other than just being a forum. It is a marketing device.
Any votes for a DGTRF Facebook page? Just a one way page that doesn't accept comments from the outside world or only TRF members who are on facebook. Merely another free advertising tool. 30 Minutes and it could be yours....
Facebook no thanks - made the mistake of trying it once, never again. My nephew is a copper and spends half of his time dealing with issues stemming from it - just like football it should be banned
Facebook no thanks - made the mistake of trying it once, never again. My nephew is a copper and spends half of his time dealing with issues stemming from it - just like football it should be banned
Facebook is the way to go already loads of greenlane groups on there though
I hate to say it but I agree with you Jack, although I don't expect I will ever see such a facebook page, (or any other for that matter), because many many people do use facebook and it is certain to give us a shop window which will be seen be the next generation so we ought to have a presence there.
). But now we have no visibility of this on our forum.
ie equally gifted at falling off and making an arse of ourselves.
no thanks - made the mistake of trying it once, never again. My nephew is a copper and spends half of his time dealing with issues stemming from it - just like football it should be banned 