Devon TRF Group Forum

jacks · Expert

Another stolen bike in East Devon

Jerry atterick · Expert

Facebook and Google earth.

If you have a dishonest mind and intent, it is an absolute piece of cake to put the rest together.

It aint all progress.

Im in the process of installing steel gates and fence to protect mine, the last call was way too close to home.

Dogs arent enough, apparently those concerned are happy to feed the dogs poisoned food a day or days before, then come back later.

Security cameras dont seem to deter those determined, disguise, false plates etc.

Police can t afford the forensics for just a couple of bikes and they probably have better things to do to meet their targets, possibly?

Physical barrier seems to be the only possibility and even then a knife to the throat would open most gates and safes!

Then perhaps Im a Cynic?

Sorry to the latest lad or lass who has fallen foul.

Not tee hee.

RichT4 · Champion

Jerry atterick wrote:
Physical barrier seems to be the only possibility and even then a knife to the throat would open most gates and safes!

I don't think many 'thief's in the night' want to have any confrontation, and if they do get some they are unlikely to want to turn a theft charge (which the police can't be bothered with) into an assault or attempted murder charge.

Just do your best with security and make sure your insurance policy is solid.

Bob Adams · Clubman A

Visable deterrent is a good start, a CID guy who worked with me asked a burglar how he selected one property over another. He was told that thieves will choose the softest target they can find. If your neighbour has an alarm and security lights and you haven't, it's you who will get done.

I've got a burglar alarm, good locks and most important of all in my book good security lighting. I have 4 long range PIR's around the 4 sides of the house and if you break any one beam, lights come on all the way around the house. I have a controller inside from where I can switch them on manually and adjust the time delay. Being bathed in light when you're skulking around someone's house encourages you to leave in a hurry, don't ask me how I know!

They were fitted several years ago after we noticed that someone had taken a jemmy to the patio door but failed to get in. Fortunately, they were good quality aluminium Everest doors, I'm not sure the newer plastic ones they have been replaced with would withstand the same treatment.

I can get into my garage from my house and vise versa so when I'm away I fix a pair of mole grips in the tracks of the up and over door so there is no way it can be forced.

I know it doesn't apply to a bike knicked overnight when you are still in the house but if you are going away, doesn't tell anymore people than necessary and certainly don't put anything on the social media sites. Jerry is dead right, these people are very good and compiling info about their target so don't make it easier for them than it already is.

It's a case of do everything you can but if they are going to but a brick through your window there is not a lot you can do.

-- Edited by Bob Adams on Monday 7th of April 2014 09:14:43 AM

Jerry atterick · Expert

Three isolated places within a mile , like mine, have been turned over badly in the last month or so.
Each involved a lot of force to enter / trash the place / remove stolen goods, more than one person involved, large vans and overcoming / ignoring the in place security systems.
Now just supposed you happened to be there, this isnt some chance tea leaf popping around for a fix etc, this is organized crime.
There appears to be a new era of criminal that is far from stupid, resourceful, very determined (it is after all their business) and, to an unknown degree, ruthless.
Clearly they arent going to be "Up for murder", but desperate moments lead to desperate actions.
Household issues are a bit different, but I dont think these people are likely to target homes, they seem to be shed / garage / workshop / yard orientated, bikes, quads, chippers, ride ons etc.
So all windows steel bars, rag bolted to wall, on the inside, doors steel framed, bolts or bolt system to each other and floor etc
Dont forget the roof, an acquaintance of ours had both their bikes stolen a few years ago, because the thiefs removed roof sheets and lifted the bikes out!
I take your point about the lights but these people dont seem bothered by such things.
The biggest problem is these people breed.
So short term solution cut their hands off when caught, long term solution cut off their other bits - Cant see it happening somehow, so its down to prevention.

-- Edited by Jerry atterick on Monday 7th of April 2014 10:03:30 AM

Jocko AKA Simmo · Clubman B

I use the two chains, bike cover and Oxford alarmed disc lock method. Chained to two separate concrete fence posts belonging to one of the toughest men in the village whose permission I asked. I can see my bike from where I stay for added security.

I asked for permission because of people forklifting parked bikes and cars away. Also the foreign wagon drivers have been known to 'collect' things on their way to the ferry. The West coast of Scotland is like the Wild West really!

My sympathies to the grieving owner.

-- Edited by Jocko AKA Simmo on Monday 7th of April 2014 10:39:51 AM

RichT4 · Champion

Avoid ground anchors, or supplement them with a wall or ceiling anchor.

Having a chain on the floor makes it easier to deal with. If it's waggling around in the air it makes it harder to cut with bolt cutters, for example....

Bob Adams · Clubman A

Jerry atterick wrote:
Three isolated places within a mile , like mine, have been turned over badly in the last month or so.
Each involved a lot of force to enter / trash the place / remove stolen goods, more than one person involved, large vans and overcoming / ignoring the in place security systems.
Now just supposed you happened to be there, this isnt some chance tea leaf popping around for a fix etc, this is organized crime.
There appears to be a new era of criminal that is far from stupid, resourceful, very determined (it is after all their business) and, to an unknown degree, ruthless.
Clearly they arent going to be "Up for murder", but desperate moments lead to desperate actions.
Household issues are a bit different, but I dont think these people are likely to target homes, they seem to be shed / garage / workshop / yard orientated, bikes, quads, chippers, ride ons etc.
So all windows steel bars, rag bolted to wall, on the inside, doors steel framed, bolts or bolt system to each other and floor etc
Dont forget the roof, an acquaintance of ours had both their bikes stolen a few years ago, because the thiefs removed roof sheets and lifted the bikes out!
I take your point about the lights but these people dont seem bothered by such things.
The biggest problem is these people breed.
So short term solution cut their hands off when caught, long term solution cut off their other bits - Cant see it happening somehow, so its down to prevention.

-- Edited by Jerry atterick on Monday 7th of April 2014 10:03:30 AM

I agree Jerry, there are 2 types of criminal, amateur and professional. My suggestions will stop most of the amateurs but not the professionals. When you see them drive a JCB through a shop window to get at a cash machine, it makes you realise that there is little you can do to stop them.

I suspect all you can do to avoid the pro's is to keep the location of the bikes as secret as possible. Mind you, I still favour the old Hells Angels method of security system of a shotgun cartridge firing gadget rigged to a trip wire. http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2964

John Harvey · Clubman A

This is probably the best solution and I think is used in most high street shops these days, no idea how much to buy but looks very effective.

http://www.smokecloak.co.uk/en/instant_protection.asp

-- Edited by John Harvey on Monday 7th of April 2014 11:14:56 AM

sparky · Clubman B

I'm currently using venomus snakes at the moment

Very silent and can be deadly, honestly officer they must have tried to nick my snakes too biggrin

Bob Adams · Clubman A

John Harvey wrote:
This is probably the best solution and I think is used in most high street shops these days, no idea how much to buy but looks very effective.
http://www.smokecloak.co.uk/en/instant_protection.asp

-- Edited by John Harvey on Monday 7th of April 2014 11:14:56 AM

Can you get smoke that renders the thief unconsious?

John Harvey · Clubman A

Bob Adams wrote:
Can you get smoke that renders the thief unconsious?

It's a nice thought biggrin

Can you believe it, but apparently there are rules that your not allowed to use these for trapping a criminal...why not!

I know an alarm installer from Barnstaple who installs these, I spoke to him a few years ago about fitting one (if anyone is interested I'll dig out his number) and remember him saying how effective they are and he knew of cases where the would be thieves have been been unable to escape before the cops arrive!

Jocko AKA Simmo · Clubman B

Is the smoke difficult to clean off bikes? What is it, just smoke or dye?

John Harvey · Clubman A

Jocko AKA Simmo wrote:
Is the smoke difficult to clean off bikes? What is it, just smoke or dye?

It is harmless, I think it is very similar to the smoke used at concerts and night clubs but is very small particle size so hangs around a while before eventually clearing to leave no damage or residue.

Dean Allen · Novice

We did have a big problem in bristol trf , we found that fb was a source for bike thiefs to find details of who and where we are, ie taking photos with your number plates doesn't help, so we closed fb and closed our website and the theft has dropped considerably. If you have a shed then it's theft, if you have a garage attached to your house then it's burglary, so then tend to go for sheds!! Then can goggle your back garden, best thing you can do is remove your axels or better still your wheels. Bikes from bristol were never being seen again because they were being put into containers and being shipped to Poland. We now have a system in place no new members are added to our website until they have come to a meeting and showed there faces so we can see who they are as we were aware that it's easy to join the trf with no checks to who they were, not to mention the ones that just use a cartons as photos and a made up name, think about it how many are in your group, £45 to join the trf and bingo take your pick. little tip the police like a bit of blood to catch a thief . Carpit grippers comes in lengths can be tucked up under fences etc don't cost much, when griped by a hand blood is produced!!!! Sounds to me like there moving into your area don't think they don't know where you are!!!!! Ps a lot of our guys use a baby alarm next to there bike and bed

-- Edited by Dean Allen on Monday 7th of April 2014 02:59:49 PM

-- Edited by Dean Allen on Monday 7th of April 2014 03:05:50 PM

Nige · Expert

I'm sick of hearing all this. I fear the police won't do much until someone is hurt.
If you do get hurt rember to scratch and pull hair to obtain dna and don't wash your hands.

John Harvey · Clubman A

Agent Orange biggrin ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuWCzmrGg9o

There's one for sale on evilbay ">http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Smokecloak-System-2000-Smoke-Cloak-Smoke-Screen-Fog-Protect-Cannon-Bandit-/191124536658?pt=UK_Burglar_Alarms&hash=item2c7fe8fd52

Edit: Sorry can't get links to work confuse

-- Edited by John Harvey on Monday 7th of April 2014 03:37:09 PM

-- Edited by John Harvey on Monday 7th of April 2014 03:40:30 PM

ttr steve · Devon's Best

And that is why I removed where I live and my surname from my profile, that anyone paid up member can see furious furious otherwise this sort of thing happens cry cry

Bob Adams · Clubman A

There is of course one sure way of getting the cops to show up quick if you see someone lurking, you mention the word gun.

"I think I saw something metal it could have been a gun" or something like that. You'll get half the force on your doorstep in minutes.

Problem is they're likely to leave just as quick but at least you get a Log No. for the insurance.

jt · Powermonger!!

Bob Adams wrote:
There is of course one sure way of getting the cops to show up quick if you see someone lurking, you mention the word gun.
"I think I saw something metal it could have been a gun" or something like that. You'll get half the force on your doorstep in minutes.
Problem is they're likely to leave just as quick but at least you get a Log No. for the insurance.

Ha, would not bet on it not a word of a lie - was standing talking to my next door neighbour some years ago on the drive and heard a crack and something hit the garage wall.....then another, and this time saw something 'ricochet' and hit the side door to the house. It dawned on me at this point it was a rifle slug (and no air gun either) hmm

So we both dived into the house and dialled 999, I gave my address and said 'I am being shot at' I expected to hear sirens within a few mins and some gun toting occifers to pitch up - maybe even a copter etc biggrin

35 mins later I saw a local bobby drive past in his little panda car - and turn at the bottom of the road and drive back again, so I whipped out to stop him. He wound down his window and asked if I was the chap that reported the shooting, I said yes and did he want to see the bullet marks in the wall or the bullets I had picked up? No he said but he would go and have a 'look around' the area.

Never saw him again or heard any more about it!!!!!

Got to say the gun toting occifers did arrive pretty fast the day I set off the magazine alarm at Meldon quarry once in the early hours of the morning - but that's a story for another day wink

-- Edited by jt on Monday 7th of April 2014 07:15:17 PM

Bob Adams · Clubman A

And then we wonder why people in other countries by guns to protect themselves...

jt · Powermonger!!

I suspect very much it was someone shooting at a target and the shots were 'overshots' - (though there a many who would want to shoot me I'm sure) but the police didn't know that - and even so you would think that in doing such in a town would have been cause for some concern blankstare but not that day it seems confuse

Back on topic some good tips from Bristol TRF - the website idea would be 'controversial' as I recall suggesting the same years back (for other reasons) and it was a non starter.

Viking · Account Deleted

We have pea****s. They make a huge noise. And if that doesn't works then the below normaly does. Security bomb and built proof glass everywhere also helps. Feel sorry for terry about his bike. Will be on the look out.

Jocko AKA Simmo · Clubman B

Dean Allen wrote:
We did have a big problem in bristol trf , we found that fb was a source for bike thiefs to find details of who and where we are, ie taking photos with your number plates doesn't help, so we closed fb and closed our website and the theft has dropped considerably.

Interesting but how far should the TRF go to protect their members' bikes? It is the individual's responsibility to ensure their bike is as hard as possible to thieve, steal or burgle. Isn't it?

Close all the sites down and you may well reduce thefts but you will also close down our shop window and no doubt reduce membership. Lack of publicly available information about the TRF and a 'closed shop window' will make us as isolated as North Korea.

Pete · Devon's Best

Copied from the national forum

http://www.trf.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16233

Did the police turn up and scenes of crime to look for evidence?

If they didn't I'd be writing to the local police commissioner reminding them that its a theft of a motor vehicle via burglary and is a serious crime.
Not bothering to visit scene of a burglary is a failure of their duty.

Quote:
In 1829 Sir Richard Mayne wrote:
"The primary object of an efficient police is the prevention of crime: the next that of detection and punishment of offenders if crime is committed. To these ends all the efforts of police must be directed. The protection of life and property, the preservation of public tranquillity, and the absence of crime, will alone prove whether those efforts have been successful and whether the objects for which the police were appointed have been attained."

In attaining these objects, much depends on the approval and co-operation of the public, and these have always been determined by the degree of esteem and respect in which the police are held. One of the key principles of modern policing in Britain is that the police seek to work with the community and as part of the community.

Tell him/her that if they don't bother attempting to find and arrest the criminals they will loose local support and the public will resort to vigilantism to protect their property if the police can't be bothered...

Ask for a formal written reply as to why a policy decision has been made to effectively not bother to investigate such crimes.

I'd be happy to do it on behalf of the victim if you provide all the details...

PS also take precautions as they might well return for the stuff they noticed and didn't take...

Quote:
Motorcycle theft is a huge problem and increasing. Of the 26,000 machines stolen each year in the UK (based on 2009 figures), the majority are less than 3 years old.*
50 % of these are stolen from Greater London, with 35 machines taken from its streets each day.
Recovery rates are as low as 18 % for some types of bikes.*
Many motorcycles are broken up into parts within hours of being stolen and reassembled onto legal frames, which have legitimate log books.*
The majority of these 'clones' find their way into the legitimate dealer network, as it is currently nearly impossible for dealers or the police to identify stolen parts.*
43% of all insurance total loss pay outs are due to theft (according to MCI research).
40% of those who receive insurance pay outs DO NOT buy another motorcycle and therefore around 10,000 people leave motorcycling each year.*
For those innocent people who unwittingly buy stolen vehicles and have their bikes seized by the police, 90 % do not continue with motorcycling.*

My reasons for not liking bike thieves ....

(Short story of an angry man) I had a bike stolen from my garage (VFR750)... I ended up tracking down the thief myself then going to the local police station and demanding they went with me to arrest the thief...
They did, he was... The bike had been stripped and parts sold, several other bikes were recovered and several national dealers had bought marked parts for bike repairs....all recovered...
I then took the thief to the Small Claims Court for Unrecovered loss..I won by simply providing relevant evidence of the arrest, charge and guilty plea, insurance report, proof of excess, report on having to get a replacement and associated costs not covered by the insurance. (He got done for handling the stolen bike parts so the conviction was admissible as evidence)... He got a large fine, didn't pay so Court Officers recovered property from his home... I got my money after they sold his stuff...
The local "Rag" ran the story having had all the facts sent to them, the local bike clubs had a copy of the newspaper sent to them and local bike shops had copies of the article in their windows. His employers and landlord got copies. He left the area.
The police had already contacted locals who had bikes stolen to try and identify parts recovered and I went to the viewing days and spoke with losers to get their contact details.
That was before the Internet had wide spread forums and all business had web sites and emails..be lot simpler now...

You don't get even when property is stolen via the normal process of insurance claims...
I was very angry at the time and would not allow the **** to get away with it....but had to do it legally...I didn't care that they knew where I lived..they had already invaded my space so had over stepped what I take to be reasonable behaviour..I didn't want them to try again...they had left my KTM and moved my car out the way, broken both doors on the garage so they would probably return again... and they had upset my wife so the war was on...

Don't get even...get satisfaction...

jt · Powermonger!!

Nice one Pete.....never knew you once rode an Orange bike biggrin

chrisoncbr · Expert

How did you manage to track him down?

Pete · Devon's Best

Pete wrote:
Copied from the national forum
http://www.trf.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16233

Perhaps you did not remember how my post started so above is a reminder.

I have only ever owned one orange bike, a Honda, not likely to change.