Devon TRF Group Forum

That's the crux of the whole case Bob!

Dave Tilbury in the background looking studious....

I had to go out and just tried logging in again and nothing happening. Is it over already?????

Unfortunately not, they have recessed until 14-00.

 

From what I've been watching of this, the Dorset CC QC is not impressing the judges at all, our guy is presenting a much more sensible perspective.

Phew can turn it off now, court adjourned, decision in due course!

Can some one please look at this because I may be reading it wrong but the way I read it we have won but I don't want to open the bottle just yet until some one can confirm it

Www.supremecourt.uk it was the summery of the case

Cheers Dom I had a exited text from a mate today and know looking into it I think he was looking at the old hearing on that link he gave me I will put the cork screw away and keep. It handy for later . Cheers

Here's a reply by Beemerman of the Dorset TRF group that gives a first hand report

"Yes, I was there with Alan Kind, Dave Tilbury and John Willy!

Their Lordships ( 5 judges) seemed to give the Dorset County Council's barrister, George Lawrence (GL), a pretty hard time. When he was labouring over a point such as the "construction" of the origins of the applicants map, Neuberger LJ said he (GL) was just going round in circles! The opening feeling from the judges was that it was a trifling issue and they wanted to get shot of it. One judge said it was like "Alice in Wonderland" and he said this twice!

As the application map was the main point, it was laboured over at some length. The judges seemed to think that the maps showed the way being applied for and together with the information on the application form this was sufficient. If there was any issues with the location of the claimed route then it was for the Highway Authority (HA) to sort it out. GL was asked if a hand tracing of an OS 1:25,000 was sufficient he answered "Yes" but also said that an enlarged OS 1:50,000 map was non-compliant. He was also asked if the HA found the application map was marginally defective, could they then get the applicant to submit a 1:25,000 map, to which he answered "No" as it wasn't submitted with the application. This didn't seem to sit well with the judges.

The whole argument stems from what Schedule 14 of the relevant act says as regarding the application map. It has be at a scale of at least 1:25,000. It does not say that it has to be an OS map and it does not say what level of detail has to shown. One judge said that as long as it showed the way being applied for then that should be sufficient. Taking this criteria, all the application maps were compliant. GL was peddling the argument which basically said that a hand drawn tracing was quite acceptable as long as it was produced at 1:25,000 scale but the map produced at 1:25,000 scale from 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey (the national mapping agency) data was not acceptable.

Plumbe got up and rambled on about the NERC Act and how this legislation bites on this case as does the Winchester judgement, but I think by this time Their Lordships had heard enough from the DCC side.

Our barrister, Adrian Pay, did a good and succinct job in keeping to the basics of the case. He wasn't questioned very much by the judges and had a reasonably easy ride.

In the afternoon GL got back up to rebutt Adrian Pay's earlier submission and once again was given some testing questions from the judges. It was evident by now that the judges had heard sufficient as one of them starting dozing off! Adrian was asked if there was anything he'd like to add but he declined. The judges then retired and we were informed that they would make their decision and we would hear at a later date.

I hope it's gone our way but there can always be a sting in the tail. In their deliberations the judges have to make sure that any decision they make does not have any negative effects on other parts of the existing legislation. They can't open the door where an applicant can enlarge a 1:100,000 map and use that for an application map.

After "The Map Scale Show" we all went to the Westminster Arms to mull over the day and wash it down with a few amber nectars. I left home at 05:45 and got home at 22:15, just in time for the Dakar!

Dave"

Martyn & Blueray - thanks Kevin

-- Edited by Cubber on Friday 16th of January 2015 04:37:07 PM

Dom1 wrote:

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How long does it take them to make a decision?

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 On their hourly rates it can often take a while

RESULT!

Here are a couple of links given on the National TRF forum:-

BBC news link

The Court's report

Martyn

 

 

 

 

In true Council style a Dorset councilor  says "I am pleased that the Supreme Court recognised that this matter was an arguable point of law of general public importance."

CLICKY LINKY to Dorset Newsroom, which ends saying, "The ruling means that the five applications will now be considered and the public rights for mechanically propelled vehicles will be fully consulted on."

Martyn

 

This lot seem to think it is not as good news as we might have hoped.

www.gleam-uk.org/contentious-issues/winchester-case-trf-dreams-shattered-as-minor-victory-narrowly-won-in-dorset-case/

Smack in the face for Gleam whatever they say.

I never knew such a pack of idiots existed until now.