Devon TRF Group Forum

I will be droping in, which one though west or north?? Maybe both

This is all promising and I respect you all for your commitment and enthusiasm 

many thanks my fellow riders 

delighted with the response I am 

Anything to do with a Colin or Steven Spurway (Payhembury) ?

Here are some thoughts on this wonderful opportunity to make a closer relationship with DCC ROW officers . I don't suppose everyone will agree with them but hopefully they will provoke a discussion .

We should have a county-wide unified and structured DGTRF approach which should be undemanding but helpful and collaborative. They are probably overstretched and underfunded and will appreciate any help we can offer to reduce their workload and in-trays.

We want to be the "go-to" organisation for them to help with their problems and hopefully get a favourable consideration from them on contentious issues that may arise.

We should have an identical and co-ordinated approach to our queries on whiteys, claim lanes, etc. Also actions on barred and blocked lanes. Ditto where landowners have grubbed out hedges, made land grabs, etc.

A list of specific queries should be made for discussion with the ROW officers at each area meeting

Include an agenda item at the next Dolphin meeting to discuss and agree any of the above

Hold a de-briefing meeting after all the area meetings to collate the information which can then be held centrally in the DGTRF files (wherever that is ??)

The 1st area meeting is on the 12th so we need to get our act together without delay.......

Dave your views mirror my mine, it is already proposed that we discuss this at the monthly meeting at the Dolphin 

You should really take this offer at face value it just a drop in' session and a very great opportunity to meet local PROW wardens face to face (they tend to open up more over a cuppa tea + biscuit, rather than locked into a e.mail conversation) 

This is a chance for the PROW officers/wardens to see some faces of the Devon Trail Riders Fellowships as myself and a handful of other time served Fellowship riders have been trying to promote the volunteer work that this fellowship has brought to the Devon county 

We all know how hard it can be to change public opinion about hairy bikers racing around, a simply way is to show your face and explain what we're about 

This surely could be a valid opportunity to meet other members of the public involved in keeping clear public ROW within the County of Devon (Footpaths, bridleways, P3) Parish paths partnership < that last word is the 'key' to the inbox devon TRF should be closely observing 

I've listened and learnt form the time served Devon TRF members of this group for some years now, one thing that is key is the origin of complaints, decisions, repairs, strimming, clearing projects emerge at a local parish level!  History has proved this time and again!

I was just politely asking for a few fellow members who could spare some of their precious time to pop along and meet + greet a few members of the public who have many things in common with you like ROW, Clearing them, mending, correcting signs.

DTRF are making progress through various avenues with the inclusion of some amazing projects completed that has caught Devon PROW's eye

Volunteer and keep the faith, its a way forward for both parties    

JT i would love to say "yes" but i've been asked by Ros to restrict numbers to two per venue for this year, i've been asked by other members too and i'm not one for restricting peoples enthusiasm at all, can we respect their wishes with the idea this can build higher numbers for this annual 'meet + greet' next year 

you'll be first on the list for next year for sure plus i doubt i'll attend every year mate

I'll be asking for the final numbers later this evening so i can send off a list of names with venues

No MAYBE's and as i said keep it two peeps per venue for this year then we can make this a yearly thing with a few more DTRF ambassadors 

Remember those attending many people in the outside world don't know much about trail riding and might just have heard about the TRF let alone know what a UCR' or green road is...

That would be excellent cheers Chris 

Went along to the first of these P3 meetings today, have to say I thought it went very well.

Got to meet Sam Jeffcoat & Stuart Howell and have a good chat about ROW stuff, I mentioned the iffy gate thrown across 191-028 and more importantly the ditch that Jez mentioned across 180-101 that was deep enough for his front wheel to drop into sending him over the handlebars .  Both of these issues have now been recorded with PROW just have to wait to hear back and see what happens?

It was good to meet with Ros and chat about P3 things, she has been mightily impressed by the work of Devon TRF and took a whole series of notes regarding insurance and training that hopefully Chris can add to later on. Started off a bit strange, she kept calling me Ian and asking me if I'd lost any weight recently ...... I said; 'don't be so cheeky' with my mouth full of biscuits with crumbs flying everywhere...

Cheers John

chriscole wrote:

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I had a productive chat with Stuart Howell the rights of way warden that covers Upottery, the lane at Ullcombe 192-10 that we have had problems with locked gates on is to have the gates removed and new fence erected along what would have been the southern hedgerow making it a gate less through route.

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Result  

Great day had chatting to Three PROW wardens on Thursday afternoon, Plus Nick doing work on the Definitive map process, A nice chat with Ros Davies

Got there later in the afternoon as i was alerted to the fact that the morning session was busy, stayed well past closing time (last one to be thrown out)

Narrowly escaped a TTRO on 193-012 as it has a large washed out section on the Northern ford (you don't say) complaints from the equestrian group about not being able to ride the route, i screamed at the PROW warden (both of them) NO!!! i'll/we/DTRF will have a fixing session on this one (it was on my to do list after 192-073) Now its been left as one warden will put up some temporary warning signs followed by a site visit from the pair of them with hopefully a remedy in the future involving tree stumps with crowns + boulders + the good ole DTRF somewhere

192-078 permission given for volunteer work to start loading bulky bags into the ravine left by drainage water, after a large meeting of council workers it was decided that there would be no monies spent from the public purse until drainage was sorted on the main tarmac road N.W. before the green road

192-073 i've asked for a site inspection on this ford crossing after extensive works carried out by DTRF with the hopeful removal of 'road closed' signs, one more load of rock to be dropped in the new year for completion

192-045 i've asked for PROW to ask highways to hand over this road to PROW as the category status suggests this is where it should be, plus then we can look at the very real possibility of having the 'road closed' signs be removed as i've ridden this road without any difficulties what so ever 

192-310 i've asked for a site meeting with the area warden to determine the correct exit/entrance at the Northern end, as i believe we should be riding this road 

192-237 work has been spotted by the area warden on this road and commented upon "You don't friggin ride that do you!!" reply "YEAH why not" hehe!, good work done by the DTRF yet again - thanks guys + girls this is proof that this procedure with the bags works enough to save a road from being washed away, oh BTW PROW wanted to do a repair, i said NO BLOODY WAY!! we like the challenge plus you don't have the money for the repair 

Hopefully we can achieve some results from this if we/I keep reminding them of our little chat 

Wacky 

chriscole wrote:

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Sounds like a good meeting well done staving off a TTRO on 192 -012, I can't remember a ford being on on 192 -012.

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 Yeah good point Chris your right there ain't a ford let alone two!! but there is on 193-012 

My apologises 

Unsurfaced county roads ( UCR's)until a couple of years ago were the responsibility of Highways, they are now the responsibility of Pubic Rights of Way (PROW). When they were with highways they were the bottom of their priority list and really no more than an inconvenience. With PROW they are some of the most important and in many cases the most used routes they are responsible for so there is much more enthusiasm to keep them open and usable.

Highways approach to maintenance differs to PROW as  they tend to treat maintenance on a UCR in much the same way as they would for a trunk road, PROW approach maintenance to UCR's more like footpaths making our involvement easier.

PROW get part of the Devon County Highways budget to carry out their work

Thanks Chris, that's now much clearer.

Russell & I had a good session at Rattery today, made sure our faces were known, contact details exchanged, etc. Had a good chat with Ros Davies, Emily Spurway, Jon Rowlands and Paul McFadden and they were all very positive towards the TRF. We were welcomed with open arms, not like the usual reaction to bikers so hats off to you guys up in the east who have prepared the way

Their general reaction to "whiteys" was for us to keep quiet and keep riding them as if they were formally brought to their attention they would probably be confirmed as Restricted Byways

They explained the increasing use of "Public Way" signs as a bit of a compromise to restrict their public liability if there were any accidents leading to claims. Their view was that if they were described as "unmetalled roads" then unsuitable cars may be inclined to use them with ensuing problems but "Public Way" didn't indicate a road so wouldn't encourage cars. Whatever, they confirmed it was legal for us to use them.

We specifically enquired about the status of 202-393, 394, 395, 396 and they just didn't exist on their definitive maps. Other than the stone lane 202-380, 397 they are a lost cause

Jon Rowlands has a list of lanes that need trimming and will send it to us for consideration as how we could help. Basically he has no budget left and would appreciate anything we could do to help !

We specifically enquired about reducing the water level in 202-143, 144 as at the moment if your bike is anything other than perfectly vertical there is a very good chance of getting water into the engine. Unless there are existing grips or buddle holes there may be difficulties in getting landowner agreement to discharge water onto their land. Jon Rowlands had no problem in principle with the TRF placing hardcore in the deepest part. Needs further inspection and discussion.

Robin Cox, a past TRF member responsible for RoW over 20 years ago, introduced himself. He lives in Marldon is a member of the local P3 group and has a sheaf of RoW documents which may be of use to us if we would like to collect them from him.

Russell, if there is anything I have missed or misunderstood then please feel free to make corrections

David

Great work there Dave & Russell

Not really convinced by their explanation of "Public Way" signs and reducing liability; a Blue advisory sign "Unsuitable for Motors" would definitely reduce liability in the same way that a "Unsuitable for Long Vehicles" doesn't forbid long vehicles but is a fair warning and if ignored then the onus is then on the driver.

I'm sure someone else will confirm this but 202-393, 394, 395, 396 are UCR's which means thy are on the List of Streets and they ARE legal! Because they aren't shown as BOATS (Byways) on their definitive map does not matter, they are not a lost cause 

Dave
100% agree about current mapping but all of those routes are recorded and unless they've been stopped up by a magistrate then they are still legal "once a highway, always a highway" and all that

Have a look at all those lanes on this app http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm  set the LH map to any of the 3 old maps and you will clearly see the lanes shown with equal status to all the other road in the area.!!!

It is these maps that the List of Streets are based on as they all have vehicular rights.

deci wrote:

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Their general reaction to "whiteys" was for us to keep quiet and keep riding them as if they were formally brought to their attention they would probably be confirmed as Restricted Byways

Jon Rowlands has a list of lanes that need trimming and will send it to us for consideration as how we could help. Basically he has no budget left and would appreciate anything we could do to help !

David

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 Firstly, well done David and Russell for taking the time to attend the meeting and for bringing up lanes which 'we' think have issues.

I'm glad to see what their general reaction to 'whiteys' is, although it contrasts with the quote, if true, from farmer Mr Hunt of Rocombe, who claimed Mr Rowlands said 'if its not a PROW, then it's private'

I call that progress.

That would be really good John thank you, I will pm his contact details that Dave has passed on to me